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Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

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628 points nodea2345 | 9 comments | 01 Oct 19 11:19 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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program_whiz ◴[01 Oct 19 13:26 UTC] No.21125050[source]▶
Sure, the kid was swinging at the officer, and I suppose that warrants the officer acting in self-defense. But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? The government has all the power, and can simply snuff out any resistence. If you just stand in the streets, they really don't care, they are going to take your freedom. Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator that just decided they were going to take all property rights and freedoms like that -- I think taking to the streets, and even resorting to violence might be necessary (otherwise the powers-that-be have no reason to listen to a bunch of people standing in a street hundreds of miles away).
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baybal2 ◴[01 Oct 19 13:54 UTC] No.21125323[source]▶
> But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do?

But another question is, what people in Beijing supposed to do?

Think of that. To many, it's very clear that men in black will not be content even if given suffrage. Then they will want places in legislature, own foreign policy, armed forces, and ultimately sovereignty.

The popular sentiment that it's "poor HK kids" coming out at large out of desperation for their material situation can't hold water. Most of activists are children of very well off people, well educated, with a lot of life experience overseas, who had their future well being secured by their parents. No way they will be appeased with just a carrot.

The Party is well aware of that. There for long been a sentiment that Hongkong is a "trojan horse" the West gave to China, and the current crisis only reinforces this opinion among people in Beijing, and down to junior-mid-level cadres. There is no way the Party will back down.

This mess will take years to settle down in any scenario.

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unethical_ban ◴[01 Oct 19 15:09 UTC] No.21126157[source]▶
The very notion that people want free government and self-determination is a bad thing is why you're being downvoted on an American forum. There is not a lot of support for oppressive governments that commit genocide against religious minorities and put people in prison for political dissidence.

You may be playing devil's advocate for the "party" but it comes too close to sounding like you're defending them.

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1. mytailorisrich ◴[01 Oct 19 15:22 UTC] No.21126344[source]▶
The irony is of course to downvote to hell any dissenting comment in a debate about democratic values and censorship in China...
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2. unethical_ban ◴[01 Oct 19 15:59 UTC] No.21126894[source]▶
There is no irony. I am not calling the authorities to have you and your family beaten and arrested.
3. tempguy9999 ◴[01 Oct 19 16:08 UTC] No.21127044[source]▶
A dissenting comment that is wrong is a bad comment and deserves downvoting for being wrong.

I'm not saying it is wrong, but expecting that democracy means all opinions are valid is a very basic misunderstanding. Very basic.

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4. mytailorisrich ◴[01 Oct 19 16:34 UTC] No.21127400[source]▶
At the very least it does mean not suppressing opinions that you consider 'wrong'.

This is not a discussion on a technical or scientific topic. This is not black and white.

In fact, and since someone mentioned the American nationality of HN, the lack of subtlety and the need to see everything in black and white, right or wrong, is a common 'criticisim', so to speak, about Americans.

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5. tempguy9999 ◴[01 Oct 19 17:02 UTC] No.21127750{3}[source]▶
> At the very least it does mean not suppressing opinions that you consider 'wrong'.

true!

> This is not black and white.

Potentially true, but I feel you're fogging the issue (something that happens a surprising amount of time in these discussions involving china).

I distinguished between dissenting comments and bad comments. While that's not utterly B/W it's actually pretty clear.

> In fact, and since someone mentioned the American nationality of HN, the lack of subtlety and the need to see everything in black and white, right or wrong, is a common 'criticisim', so to speak, about Americans.

Ah good old racism! And it is racism BTW. Americans are crude, stupid and gunslinging morons. Well, I've met a very few like that, very few indeed.

Can I make some obnoxious and unfair generalisations about the chinese? You're OK with that I take it?

I'm a brit BTW.

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6. mytailorisrich ◴[01 Oct 19 17:46 UTC] No.21128350{4}[source]▶
The downside of freedom of speech is what one has to read, sometimes..
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7. tempguy9999 ◴[01 Oct 19 17:59 UTC] No.21128562{5}[source]▶
That insinuation that I'm uneducated addresses none of my points. So how about replying to the given issues.
8. rumanator ◴[01 Oct 19 23:35 UTC] No.21132058[source]▶
> The irony is of course to downvote to hell any dissenting comment in a debate about democratic values and censorship in China...

Please don't confuse PR posts conducted by China's 50 cent army lauding absurdities such as the virtues of a totalitarian regime as "dissenting comment".

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9. mytailorisrich ◴[02 Oct 19 12:49 UTC] No.21135795[source]▶
Please stop assuming that any comment that does not share your opinion on China is fake.