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628 points nodea2345 | 26 comments | | HN request time: 0.943s | source | bottom
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nvahalik ◴[] No.21125093[source]
> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator

This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

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swarnie_[dead post] ◴[] No.21125127[source]
Non-American here, i never really understood your second amendment or how you cling to it in the modern age.

What are a couple of rednecks with assault rifles (which arguably they shouldn't be able to purchase anyway) going to do against semi-autonomy kill droids being flown from a bunker in the desert?

1. sudhirj ◴[] No.21125160[source]
Same thing the original Americans did when protesting the massively better trained and armed British Army. Keep their wits about them and keep fighting.

If anything the war in Afghanistan has proven that technology is no match for resilience and grit.

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2. onion2k ◴[] No.21125607[source]
Same thing the original Americans did when protesting the massively better trained and armed British Army.

Get saved by the French?

ducks

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3. chrift ◴[] No.21125666[source]
I'm confused - are you saying that Afghanistan triumphed?
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4. barsonme ◴[] No.21125717[source]
Did we win Afghanistan? Did we win Vietnam?
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5. orbifold ◴[] No.21125722[source]
It‘a kind of ironic, the French were so focused on screwing over the British, that they nearly bankrupted themselves and raised a generation of freedom fighting officers. Both eventually led to food shortages and revolution.
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6. Redoubts ◴[] No.21125740[source]
It's certainly not a win for the US there.
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7. ptero ◴[] No.21125795[source]
I think the point is that the US military with vastly superior firepower, organization and funding failed to conquer (i.e., control) the country.
8. lostlogin ◴[] No.21125816{3}[source]
Or for the people there. Is it possible that all sides lost?
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9. throwaway_law ◴[] No.21125868{3}[source]
>Did we win Afghanistan?

The Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan and the illegitimate communist government was ousted right?

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10. Ozumandias ◴[] No.21125907[source]
Or rely on wars on other continents to drag their opponent's attention away?
11. maxerickson ◴[] No.21125926[source]
Afghanistan is a fool's mission, not a war.

If the US had the desire and stomach to wage total war against the people of Afghanistan (gladly we do not), there would not be a lingering quagmire.

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12. throwaway_law ◴[] No.21125972{3}[source]
The democratically elected leader was over thrown by the Communist party and the Soviets invaded to support the illegitimate communist government.

The US supported the anti-communist opposition, and the Soviets withdrew and Afghanistan returned to democratic elections.

Like all things politics, its all how you spin it. Perhaps the real loss was what happened after the US spent over $1T to spread democracy in Afghanistan, they began electing the Taliban as their democratic leaders, and we ultimately went to war against the Taliban costing even more. That firmly established the US believes in democracy so long as we also support the party that wins the elections.

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13. moate ◴[] No.21125974[source]
You're completely overlooking the fact that fighting a foreign war =/= fighting a domestic threat. The Afghanis greatest asset is their ability to use their land/people to hide and strike. I don't think you get that advantage in a US civil war, because who would know the US better than US citizens.

Even the previous US civil war isn't a great example because that was a regional war before modern technology. You could have guerilla forces hiding out in southern backwaters that the Union wasn't familiar with. It would be much harder to do that in a country as massively surveilled as the modern US.

These wars would not be the same, and this represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the scope of the conflict.

14. SkyBelow ◴[] No.21126151[source]
Part of the strategy would be to resist long enough for international pressure to aid, be that UN sanctions or be that another country deciding to claim some more land while the US is too distracted to fight back.
15. Redoubts ◴[] No.21126424{4}[source]
> Perhaps the real loss was what happened after the US spent over $1T to spread democracy

Yes, this is the event we're talking about. Not the one in the 80s.

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16. Redoubts ◴[] No.21126466[source]
I suppose civil wars and internal conflicts have a habit of being much more vicious, so this is something to consider.
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17. Clubber ◴[] No.21126471[source]
It didn't work out that way when the Nazi's invaded Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_partisans

>The partisans made significant contributions to the war by frustrating German plans to exploit occupied Soviet territories economically, gave considerable help to the Soviet Army by conducting systematic strikes against Germany's rear communication network, disseminated political work among the local population by publishing newspapers and leaflets, and succeeded in creating and maintaining a feeling of insecurity among German forces.[1]

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18. throwaway_law ◴[] No.21126549{5}[source]
Well the Taliban is no longer in power, removing them from power was the purpose of our use of force and military operations in Afghanistan starting in 2001...again when it comes to war "winning" is kind of in the eye of the beholder.

FYI we spent over $1T to spread democracy in Afghanistan pre-2001.

19. maxerickson ◴[] No.21126573{3}[source]
Not even close to the same asymmetry in capabilities.
20. maxerickson ◴[] No.21126631{3}[source]
The point is that nation building exercises don't demonstrate anything about the capabilities of a modern military. If you are trying to win hearts and minds, you are behaving very differently than if you seek to kill or cow.

Personally, I'd expect the main skirmishes in a US civil war to be factions of the military fighting against each other.

21. AnimalMuppet ◴[] No.21126679[source]
True. But if we don't have the stomach to wage total war against the people of Afghanistan, why do you think we'd have the stomach to wage total war against (a portion of) the people of the US?
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22. AnimalMuppet ◴[] No.21126694{4}[source]
Yes, and then? There was this US-vs-Taliban thing...
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23. maxerickson ◴[] No.21126748{3}[source]
I'm contesting the statement If anything the war in Afghanistan has proven that technology is no match for resilience and grit.

It's not really technology holding us back, in either situation. Fear the day technology is good enough that the few can act without the restraint of civilization.

24. filoleg ◴[] No.21127265{4}[source]
I mean, the major difference is that with the Afghanistan, the US troops just get to return back home after fighting in the disaster that Afghanistan has become. I think it would be a bit more different when you have nowhere else to come back to, other than the place you just unsuccessfully destabilized and ravaged.
25. throwaway_law ◴[] No.21129043{5}[source]
Entirely different war and entirely different enemy.

It would be like equating WWI Germany with WWII Nazi Germany...but who knows, maybe people do that.

26. 24gttghh ◴[] No.21129852{3}[source]
>they nearly bankrupted themselves

They did bankrupt themselves. The Crown treasury was completely empty in 1788.