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Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

(twitter.com)
323 points plusCubed | 15 comments | 21 Dec 18 17:48 UTC | HN request time: 0.856s | source | bottom
1. SheinhardtWigCo ◴[21 Dec 18 19:48 UTC] No.18735987[source]▶
Brave is a web browser that takes your money and claims to pay out to your favorite websites and content creators, but in most cases actually pays into a "user growth pool" that funds pyramid-shaped marketing (paying users to use the browser) and referral programs for partner content creators. How is that not fraud?
replies(4): >>18736000 #>>18736240 #>>18736951 #>>18744512 #
2. davidgerard ◴[21 Dec 18 19:49 UTC] No.18736000[source]▶
> How is that not fraud?

The answer appears to be "technically", and "sue if you think you're big enough".

replies(2): >>18736253 #>>18738121 #
3. drcode ◴[21 Dec 18 20:16 UTC] No.18736240[source]▶
Well, I guess the core question is whether their users understand the mechanism they are participating in when they pay their contribution. I don't see the problem of letting their users participate in such a mechanism as long as there is transparency about how it works and that the contribution system has some pretty significant limitations.
4. matt4077 ◴[21 Dec 18 20:18 UTC] No.18736253[source]▶
Fraud is a criminal offense. It needs a prosecutor, not a plaintiff.
replies(1): >>18736783 #
5. nradov ◴[21 Dec 18 21:25 UTC] No.18736783{3}[source]▶
In the US legal system there are both criminal and civil forms of fraud. A plaintiff can sue for fraud in civil court, seeking damages or specific performance.
replies(1): >>18739465 #
6. ◴[21 Dec 18 21:44 UTC] No.18736951[source]▶
7. jblow ◴[22 Dec 18 00:53 UTC] No.18738121[source]▶
I would be interested in suing them if they have a page up for me. How do I tell if they do?
replies(4): >>18738683 #>>18741916 #>>18743199 #>>18744529 #
8. ivank ◴[22 Dec 18 03:08 UTC] No.18738683{3}[source]▶
It looks like an in-browser thing:

https://ludios.org/tmp/jon_blow-fs8.png

https://ludios.org/tmp/jon_blow2-fs8.png

replies(1): >>18744519 #
9. anticensor ◴[22 Dec 18 07:27 UTC] No.18739465{4}[source]▶
Really? In Europe, if an offense has both civil and criminal forms, criminal courts are authorised for both forms of said offense, difference lying in procedure instead.
replies(1): >>18740534 #
10. nradov ◴[22 Dec 18 13:45 UTC] No.18740534{5}[source]▶
Yes really. I doubt that applies to all countries in Europe. The UK legal system is similar to the American one.

US criminal courts can order defendants convicted of fraud to pay restitution to their victims.

11. ◴[22 Dec 18 18:56 UTC] No.18741916{3}[source]▶
12. atomical ◴[22 Dec 18 23:43 UTC] No.18743199{3}[source]▶
Is it okay if I tip you some BATs?
13. brandnewlow ◴[23 Dec 18 04:54 UTC] No.18744512[source]▶
We don't do that and don't aim to do that. We shipped some bad UI, got a bunch of flack for it, and are hustling to get it fixed and improved. You can read about what we're doing here: https://brave.com/rewards-update/

Thanks for caring about this being done in a respectful, thoughtful way. We'll keep trying to do better.

14. brandnewlow ◴[23 Dec 18 04:55 UTC] No.18744519{4}[source]▶
We're shipping changes tomorrow that will fix the problems with these overlays to make it clear unverified creators are not part of Brave Rewards and won't be receiving tips directly. You can read about them here: https://brave.com/rewards-update/
15. brandnewlow ◴[23 Dec 18 04:58 UTC] No.18744529{3}[source]▶
We don't publish pages for creators at all. We did ship bad UI in our browser that didn't make it clear to opted in users that non-verified creators like yourself aren't part of Brave Rewards.

We're pushing up fixes tomorrow that (we hope) make it a lot clearer: https://brave.com/rewards-update/

(Sidenote: Thank you for the Hedge Maze puzzles in the Keep. They were a gaming highlight for me last year.)