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“I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

(mail.python.org)
2024 points randlet | 14 comments | 12 Jul 18 15:22 UTC | HN request time: 1.435s | source | bottom
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sametmax ◴[12 Jul 18 16:43 UTC] No.17516339[source]▶
As a personnal note, you could feel that guido was already in this mood for a while from the tone of the last year tickets and mails.

It's amazing he managed to not explode at somebody. I know i would have if our roles had been reversed in some exchanges we had.

Good writers, comedians or directors know when to quit at the top their carreer.

I think he is quitting before the situation was too taxing and that is wise and courageous. Espacially since it's been more than 2 decades of service.

Plus he is leaving his baby.

That's an amazing move.

replies(2): >>17519019 #>>17543886 #
Havoc ◴[12 Jul 18 22:07 UTC] No.17519019[source]▶
>It's amazing he managed to not explode at somebody.

Like a certain other BDFL occasionally does?

replies(2): >>17520588 #>>17521127 #
IgorPartola ◴[13 Jul 18 04:51 UTC] No.17520588[source]▶
Don’t know why you are being downvoted. Linus’s tirades and diatribes are famous for how brutally personal they get. I still maintain that they are a waste of time and he would be a more effective leader if he limited his responses to “this is a bad idea” or “this isn’t done right” instead of writing pages long personal attacks on other members of the project.
replies(5): >>17520652 #>>17520988 #>>17521005 #>>17521160 #>>17521769 #
flukus ◴[13 Jul 18 07:40 UTC] No.17521160[source]▶
Any example of being brutally personal? There's plenty where he attacks someone's work and mentions their position in the community but I don't think I've ever seen him get personal, like insulting their looks or background.
replies(1): >>17521268 #
1. FartyMcFarter ◴[13 Jul 18 08:10 UTC] No.17521268[source]▶
https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/495
replies(1): >>17521341 #
2. flukus ◴[13 Jul 18 08:24 UTC] No.17521341[source]▶
There's nothing personal there, it's a generic insult. Unless Linus know's about the persons breastfeeding history of course.

My understanding is that the person being derided here isn't even a kernel developer.

replies(2): >>17521407 #>>17521744 #
3. jwilk ◴[13 Jul 18 08:42 UTC] No.17521407[source]▶

  $ git shortlog -s --author Sievers --before 2012-07-06
     339  Kay Sievers

  $ git shortlog -s --author Sievers --after 2012-07-06
      12  Kay Sievers
replies(1): >>17521637 #
4. __flo ◴[13 Jul 18 09:47 UTC] No.17521637{3}[source]▶
That specific dev was completely banned from kernel development four years ago (two years later): https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420. I don't know the persons involved and how much they contributed, but I'm wary of the implied cause.
replies(1): >>17523607 #
5. okal ◴[13 Jul 18 10:19 UTC] No.17521744[source]▶
This is laughable. What would you consider a "personal" insult?
replies(1): >>17521823 #
6. flukus ◴[13 Jul 18 10:46 UTC] No.17521823{3}[source]▶
Something personal to an individual, insulting their looks, background, family, etc.

If you call me a dickhead it's not a personal insult, call me fat it's getting there and when it's that [redacted] event when I was drunk a few weeks ago it's personal.

Anyone that find that Linus spray as "brutally personal" needs a cup of cement.

replies(3): >>17522592 #>>17523261 #>>17526616 #
7. jamienicol ◴[13 Jul 18 13:08 UTC] No.17522592{4}[source]▶
There are plenty of people who don't like being called dickheads and choose not to work in those environments. I will never contribute a line of code upstream to the kernel, as will plenty more people who are much smarter than I am.

You and Linus and all his fanboys will no doubt say the kernel is better off without us.

8. treatpeoplewell ◴[13 Jul 18 14:34 UTC] No.17523261{4}[source]▶
If you showed me the sentence "If you call me a dickhead it's not a personal insult" removed from all context I would immediately know that it could only have been posted by a brain genius at Hacker News.
replies(1): >>17528987 #
9. mtrovo ◴[13 Jul 18 15:14 UTC] No.17523607{4}[source]▶
I think it's related to this [1]. The tone of the conversation is unbelievable, is it normal to have this kind of flame wars on kernel?

[1] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935

replies(1): >>17528984 #
10. Jasper_ ◴[13 Jul 18 20:55 UTC] No.17526616{4}[source]▶
Since the people that enjoy arguing semantics and splitting hairs love a good "word definitions" argument, let's take a quick look at "personal". Merriam-Webster suggests "of, relating to, or affecting a particular person".

So, let's ask ourselves, is the term "dickhead" personal? Does it relate to a particular person? I don't see it relating to anything else, so I'm going to go with "yes" on that one.

But I could be missing something. What do you think it relates to?

replies(1): >>17528641 #
11. flukus ◴[14 Jul 18 03:26 UTC] No.17528641{5}[source]▶
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define%3A+personal&oq=def...

> 2. of or concerning one's private life, relationships, and emotions rather than one's career or public life.

A much more relevant definition in this context don't you think? It's their public work being attacked, not their private life.

12. slededit ◴[14 Jul 18 05:31 UTC] No.17528984{5}[source]▶
Its not a like a workplace where the boss can just say "we're going this way". If two parties disagree then the standoff has to be broken somehow. Getting angry isn't always the most effective approach, but it does remove ambiguity about how much a person cares about the issue.
13. flukus ◴[14 Jul 18 05:33 UTC] No.17528987{5}[source]▶
> I would immediately know that it could only have been posted by a brain genius at Hacker News.

Have you ever worked or even associated with people in the blue collar world? Dickhead is tame enough to call your friends. Ever watched Gordon Ramsey? He might have better writers than most chefs but the abuse levels are industry wide.

replies(1): >>17543714 #
14. treatpeoplewell ◴[16 Jul 18 18:31 UTC] No.17543714{6}[source]▶
Dude, when you're in a hole, stop digging.