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2024 points randlet | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0.902s | source | bottom
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bla2 ◴[] No.17515883[source]
> I don't ever want to have to fight so hard for a PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions.

Leading a large open source project must be terrible in this age of constant outrage :-(

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symmitchry ◴[] No.17515972[source]
I'm a little confused though, by his feelings here. Why did he feel the need to "fight so hard for a PEP" if it was so controversial, and everyone was outraged?

I do understand people's points about "the age of outrage" and "internet 2018" but still: the PEP wasn't generally accepted as being a fantastic improvement, so why did he feel the need to fight so hard for it?

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jnwatson ◴[] No.17516128[source]
It was controversial syntax, inline assignment-as-expression. There's always a tension between "keep it simple stupid" and "let's make it better", especially when a large user demographic of Python are non-professional-programmers.

Interestingly, C++ is going through the same process, with lots of great ideas being proposed, but the sum total of them being an even more complicated language (on top of what is probably the most complicated language already).

Python has been successful, IMHO, because Guido has made several brave, controversial calls. Python 3 breakage and async turned out to be prescient, fantastic decisions.

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Redoubts ◴[] No.17516681[source]
> Python has been successful, IMHO, because Guido has made several brave, controversial calls. Python 3 breakage and async turned out to be prescient, fantastic decisions.

A lot of companies are choosing new languages over porting python from 2 to 3.

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1. Daishiman ◴[] No.17516973[source]
Name one.
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2. ubernostrum ◴[] No.17517477[source]
I think it's true, but also a red herring.

A lot of corporate dev environments operate on a policy where you're basically allowed to fix things that sales and customer support explicitly ask to fix, but nothing else. Which in turn means an environment where doing maintenance work that indirectly sustains the software is off-limits. Which in turn means they never ever upgrade the underlying platform (that's off-limits maintenance work), and so they end up on an EOL'd platform. At which point they blame the platform, and announce they're going to switch to something better that doesn't impose this problem on them.

Those types of places were never going to upgrade to Python 3 under any circumstances. They probably would not have even upgraded to a completely-backwards-compatible Python 2.8, if that had been released. So blaming Python 3 is a red herring here.

3. liveoneggs ◴[] No.17517863[source]
Google replacing python with Go?
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4. Daishiman ◴[] No.17518043[source]
That has little to do with Python 3 and a lot to do with the scale of Google's services where high performance is really important and where refactoring in static languages is easier.
5. joshuamorton ◴[] No.17518414[source]
This also isn't really true. Google is certainly replacing certain things with Go. But its not replacing python with go.
6. webmaven ◴[] No.17533714[source]
I understand that had more to do with their "Unladen Swallow"[0] work being rejected than anything related to the transition to Python3.

Since Google couldn't convince folks to let them make Python faster, they created a NEW language instead.

[0] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3146/