←back to thread

1.1.1.1: Fast, privacy-first consumer DNS service

(blog.cloudflare.com)
1895 points _l4jh | 5 comments | 01 Apr 18 12:14 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
JD557 ◴[01 Apr 18 14:46 UTC] No.16728535[source]▶
I wish that they talked a bit more about their stance regarding censorship. They have a small paragraph talking about the problem, but they don't talk about the "solution".

While Cloudflare has been pretty neutral about censoring sites in the past (notably, pirate sites), the Daily Stormer incident put them in a though spot[1].

They talk a bit about Project Galileo (the link is broken BTW, it should be https://www.cloudflare.com/galileo), but their examples do not mention topics that would be controversial in western societies, and the site is quite vague. Would they also protect sites like sci-hub, for example?

While I would rather use a DNS not owned by Google, I have never seen any site blocked by them, including sites with a nation-wide block. I hope that Cloudflare is able to do the same thing.

1: https://torrentfreak.com/cloudflare-doesnt-want-daily-storme...

replies(6): >>16728539 #>>16728791 #>>16728822 #>>16729017 #>>16729237 #>>16733194 #
ocdtrekkie ◴[01 Apr 18 15:40 UTC] No.16728822[source]▶
Bear in mind, they dropped Daily Stormer because they were claiming Cloudflare agreed with their ideology. Which someone in the previous discussion pointed out was a Terms of Service violation.

DNS resolving offers no such terms and no such reason to make such a claim. I don't see that playing here. And bear in mind, when the CEO did it, he wrote about how dangerous it was that companies had that power. I don't feel other companies running other DNS services hold that level of concern or awareness.

When you consider that their "competitor" in the space of free DNS resolvers with easy-to-remember IPs is Google, who recently tried blocking the word "gun" in Google Shopping... it's hard not to see the introduction of a Cloudflare DNS resolver as at least a net positive for resisting censorship. And more options is almost always better.

replies(2): >>16728884 #>>16729005 #
1. Andre_Wanglin ◴[01 Apr 18 15:52 UTC] No.16728884[source]▶
>because they were claiming Cloudflare agreed with their ideology.

That was a lie. It was a commenter on an article.

replies(1): >>16729524 #
2. ocdtrekkie ◴[01 Apr 18 17:52 UTC] No.16729524[source]▶
My tendency would be to ask for some sort of proof, though I realize asking for proof of nonexistence of evidence is near impossible. I'm inclined at present to place more trust in Cloudflare's word at this point, but I try to keep an open mind. It's always good to know both sides' stories.
replies(1): >>16731182 #
3. Andre_Wanglin ◴[01 Apr 18 23:38 UTC] No.16731182[source]▶
Well, you have the CloudFlare blog where Prince states "The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology."[0] So, all that is necessary is to find this statement. I won't link to it but the Daily Stormer has been active on the clear web for most of the time intervening the seizure of their domain and now. Prince never provided any proof for his claim, not even a screenshot. Of course, a screenshot would have given away, via the visual context, that the statement wasn't from the "team" but from a forum commenter presenting the notion in a joking manner.

As it happens, an internal memo "leaked" to the media wherein Prince admitted he pulled the plug on The Daily Stormer because they are "assholes" and admitted that “The Daily Stormer site was bragging on their bulletin boards about how Cloudflare was one of them."[1] These forums are also what served as the area for readers to comment on articles. Ergo, he acknowledged that he knew his statement about the Daily Stormer "team" claiming CloudFlare supported their ideology was a lie.

You also have to go back in time and consider the context in which The Daily Stormer was successively de-platformed. The site had been publishing low-brow racist commentary including jokes about pushing Jews into ovens and referring to Africans as various simian species for years. It was, however, a single article wherein they mocked the woman who died at the Charlottesville, VA conflict between the alt-right and antifa that led to the widespread outrage that resulted in the The Daily Stormer being temporarily kicked off the internet.[2]

At the same time that Cloudflare was banning the Daily Stormer, they were (and still are, AFAIK) providing services to pro-pedophilia and ISIS web sites. The Daily Stormer itself pointed out not only the hypocrisy of this situation but also the risk it created to CloudFlare's continued safe harbor protections.[3]

[0]: https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ [1]: https://gizmodo.com/cloudflare-ceo-on-terminating-service-to... [2]: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/da... [3]: https://web.archive.org/web/20180401233331/https://dailystor...

replies(1): >>16748842 #
4. 18pfsmt ◴[03 Apr 18 20:34 UTC] No.16748842{3}[source]▶
You seem to know an awful lot about this specific case, and I'll defer to you on that. I know about the general case, technically speaking (though merely a DNS hobbyist).

However, having a business relationship with another organization is not a right. Hate speakers are not a protected class.

DNS does not operate in the same manner nor with the same assumptions. One can obviously run their own DNS resolver as has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread.

Please list the, "pro-pedophilia and ISIS web sites." hosted by Cloudflare?

Edit: There's probably a business opportunity for a registrar/DNS provider/host that operates under 'free speech purism,' though it's hard to say it won't go the way of usenet in that regard.

replies(1): >>16814028 #
5. Andre_Wanglin ◴[11 Apr 18 18:34 UTC] No.16814028{4}[source]▶
>Please list the, "pro-pedophilia and ISIS web sites." hosted by Cloudflare?

It's in the linked archived DS article and I confirmed the information is still true.