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219 points thisisit | 4 comments | | HN request time: 1.229s | source
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asabjorn ◴[] No.16127096[source]
I am a Norwegian in Silicon Valley that have spent most of my career with Chinese colleagues, both in academia and industry, and my anecdata seem to indicate that my highly talented China-born colleagues are sadly leaving because;

- China has great opportunities for riches

- Getting a US VISA is hard and painful when you come from a populous country like China or India

- My China-born colleagues seem to in general be more conservative, and Silicon Valley has become violently intolerant of anyone that holds an opinion different than the predominant view

Only the first reason is somewhat objective, while the two others cause stress in their daily life as their ability to provide can at any time be removed due to what is perceived as arbitrary reasons. Everything being equal, many of them have told me they would prefer the less crowded Silicon Valley.

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drb91 ◴[] No.16127351[source]
> My China-born colleagues seem to in general be more conservative, and Silicon Valley has become violently intolerant of anyone that holds an opinion different than the predominant view

What exactly does this mean? Are they evangelical baptists, libertarians, reactionaries, nationalist, homophobic, misogynist, racist, anti-atheist, pro family-values, pro corporation, skeptical of global warming, pro fossil fuel energy, war hawks, or something else altogether? It's really quite difficult to interpret your statement as anything meaningful without clarification, and there are ten thousand different ways to be "conservative".

And to be clear, "conservative" is anything but a dirty word or something I'm trying to critique here--just a context-sensitive one. It could be a pejorative or a value.

Otherwise it doesn't add much to the conversation--it is itself a reactionary statement.

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whatyoucantsay ◴[] No.16127714[source]
>> My China-born colleagues seem to in general be more conservative, and Silicon Valley has become violently intolerant of anyone that holds an opinion different than the predominant view

> What exactly does this mean? Are they evangelical baptists, libertarians, reactionaries, nationalist, homophobic, misogynist, racist, anti-atheist, pro family-values, pro corporation, skeptical of global warming, pro fossil fuel energy, war hawks, or something else altogether?

That's a long list.

    baptist: no
    libertarians: definitely no
    reactionaries: depends on what you mean
    nationalist: yes, beyond your wildest dreams... btw fuck Japan
    homophobic: no, disapproval of homosexuality is likely, but not phobia
    misogynist: rarely, but routinely sexist
    racist: yes... especially vs Japanese
    anti-atheist: of course not
    pro family-values: absolutely
    pro corporation: yes
    skeptical of global warming: no
    pro fossil fuel energy: not on the radar
    war hawks: only if rightful and historical claims are not respected
    something else altogether: many, many things
Silicon Valley is strident to the point where it's annoying, even for people invested in entirely orthogonal worldviews.
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yen223 ◴[] No.16127942[source]
Do keep in mind, of course, that not all Chinese people are the same.
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1. whatyoucantsay ◴[] No.16128340[source]
> Do keep in mind, of course, that not all Chinese people are the same.

That's a snarky comment.

Obviously not everyone raised in a given country holds identical views, but there are real differences in cultures and beliefs between countries (especially those with centrally managed media).

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2. yen223 ◴[] No.16131538[source]
How's that a snarky comment?

It's a gentle reminder to all who read things like this that Chinese people are individuals too, and don't all subscribe to the same beliefs. The notion that the modern Chinese person is racist towards the Japanese is pretty laughable, for example.

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3. whatyoucantsay ◴[] No.16132395[source]
A "gentle reminder" that a 1.4 billion group of people are not identical is about as condescending as it gets.

> The notion that the modern Chinese person is racist towards the Japanese is pretty laughable, for example.

It's hard to see how anyone with any familiarity with China who does not themselves hate Japanese would laugh at this.

Not only is there widespread hatred of Japan (including Japanese people whose parents weren't even born during WWII), but it's fanned by the government[1]. Anti-Japanese specials run on TV during national week and over 200 anti-Japanese films are produced in China every year. In some cases anti-Japanese films are censored for being too moderate. A well known example is the 2000s war film, Devils at the Doorstep, which was nationally banned for including a scene where one Japanese soldier was friendly with Chinese villagers.

Despite your implication that modern China suffers less from this, surveys have shown that anti-Japanese sentiment in China is higher among the current generation than among the Chinese who lived through the war occupation. [2]

Personal anecdote is the weakest form of argument in this kind of debate, but I'll also add that while living on the mainland, I've personally received criticism simply for having befriended several Japanese students during my uni days.

1) https://journals.sub.uni-hamburg.de/giga/jcca/article/view/1...

2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment_in_Chi...

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4. stevenwoo ◴[] No.16136245{3}[source]
What's really weird about Devils at the Doorstep being banned - SPOILERS eventually the Japanese killed everyone in that village and the Japanese soldiers were not punished because of the ending of World War 2.