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Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

(www.bbc.co.uk)
362 points ComputerGuru | 4 comments | 23 Dec 17 12:36 UTC | HN request time: 0.431s | source
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dghf ◴[23 Dec 17 14:26 UTC] No.15994254[source]▶
This bit confused me:

> China bans all activists' commemorations and highly regulates online discussion of the incident, including censoring criticism. But it is marked annually by activists elsewhere in the world, particularly in Hong Kong and Taiwan. [Emphasis added.]

Hong Kong is part of China, albeit as a special administrative region. So does the ban not apply in HK? Or does it apply in theory, but in practice is not enforced? Or are HK-based activists just more willing to flout the ban?

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1. candiodari ◴[23 Dec 17 14:27 UTC] No.15994256[source]▶
The last one. There's no stopping these activites in Hong Kong. (for the moment)

It is becoming very clear however, that a serious crackdown from Beijing is coming. Not on this particular incident, but in general on the political freedom in Hong Kong. It is becoming undeniable China demanded Hong Kong back in order to destroy it.

But when it will arrive. Good question.

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2. rayiner ◴[23 Dec 17 14:34 UTC] No.15994288[source]▶
China's economic growth in the last couple of decades has in a way been terrible for the long-term future of Hong Kong. When Hong Kong was transferred from the British to the Chinese, there was some question about whether you could have the prosperity of a market economy without the political freedom of a democracy. I'd imagine China was hesitant to mess too much with Hong Kong in fear of killing its economy. But it turns out that you can have markets without democracy; you need the rule of law but it doesn't matter if people get to vote on the government that makes the laws. That eliminates the long-term incentive to maintain Hong Kong as a separate system.
3. schuke ◴[23 Dec 17 15:02 UTC] No.15994379[source]▶
This is not exactly correct. HK has pretty solid rule of law and has a Basic Law that guarantees freedom of speech. Beijing cannot interfere directly and activists face completely different consequences after speaking out. That's why Beijing can only abduct a few booksellers from HK and had to deal with the messy fallout.
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4. intro-b ◴[23 Dec 17 16:25 UTC] No.15994795[source]▶
I'm not sure if a few journalistic op-eds and moderate pieces of international condemnation count as "messy fallout." It seems like it was a successful, measured attempt at probing the limits of what they could get away with.