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I’m an Ex-Google Woman Tech Leader and I’m Sick of Our Approach to Diversity

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791 points 317070 | 4 comments | 14 Aug 17 16:11 UTC | HN request time: 1.346s | source
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KirinDave ◴[14 Aug 17 17:50 UTC] No.15010748[source]▶
One of the reasons I push for very objective, fixed, and carefully selected technical interview techniques is precisely to avoid these issues.

The goal is to reach a point where either you pass the technical, or you don't. But making a fair technical assessment for levels and roles in a company takes time and is very tempting (but, I argue, futile) to contract out.

I think in a larger context: the "pipeline problem" people want to point to as a source of the gender gap in hiring will become our primary issue when we first iron out the issues with the atrittion and harassment we see for women in the workplace.

As for gender essentialism, I think this woman has every right to her opinion and I support her efforts, but I think she's approaching the problem wrong. She's showing kids perhaps one of the ugliest and least rewarding facets of being a software engineer and wondering why her daughter (who has almost certainly had positive modeling for a lot of other roles) isn't interested.

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1. hackinthebochs ◴[15 Aug 17 00:15 UTC] No.15014262[source]▶
>She's showing kids perhaps one of the ugliest and least rewarding facets of being a software engineer and wondering why her daughter... isn't interested.

And yet her son is. That seems an important detail. What is the virtue in hiding the "ugly" side of engineering when its generally the most common part of the process?

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2. KirinDave ◴[15 Aug 17 01:25 UTC] No.15014596[source]▶
So you spend your days working arbitrary logic puzzles in a gross language like Python? I know I'd have never gotten into this field.

It's so easy to say, "Gosh this confirms our stereotypes!" But even if there are inherently measureable and statistically significant differences that doesn't really translate to "women are worse at programming and math."

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3. hackinthebochs ◴[15 Aug 17 04:07 UTC] No.15015381[source]▶
Honestly, I would prefer if my days were spent doing logic puzzles. Most of it is doing tedious uninteresting coding tasks, i.e. code that takes no insight nor provides any intellectual stimulation. But the logic puzzles are what initially drew me in. The "sexy" stuff in software engineering is built on a boat load of unsexy behind the scenes. It's easy to be mislead.

>But even if there are inherently measureable and statistically significant differences that doesn't really translate to...

True, but the critical point is that programming is very hard and if you're not the type that's naturally drawn to logic puzzles it could be torture. Interest is related to aptitude in that those that are interested have the inherent motivation to get good at it. I strongly believe that interest is highly correlated with aptitude. That doesn't mean that those uninterested in logic puzzles can't hack it, its just that they have to be very highly motivated to learn. I'm just not sure I see the value in trying to engineer interest at such a young age if it doesn't come naturally.

> in a gross language like Python

Brave words to utter on this site!

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4. KirinDave ◴[15 Aug 17 14:43 UTC] No.15018604{3}[source]▶
> True, but the critical point is that programming is very hard and if you're not the type that's naturally drawn to logic puzzles

Here I am, not that type until my late 30s. I've been programming or trying to since I was 5ish. And most folks who talk to, work with, or have worked for me regard my technical skills quite highly.

If all you want is an endless stream of puzzles with no responsibility or connection to reality, be a professional video gamer. The Minecraft folks, for example.

I tried it for awhile, but I find the life of video gaming without any real responsibility pretty empty.

> I'm just not sure I see the value in trying to engineer interest at such a young age if it doesn't come naturally.

Logic puzzles in a language founded on principle of anti-intellectualism is not software engineering.

Maybe if they made things of issuing tests that's a better idea.