←back to thread

791 points 317070 | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.482s | source
Show context
danans ◴[] No.15010740[source]
> Try software engineers with experience in sensors, wireless and hardware stacks before angrily correcting my stats there. There was no way I was going to come out of that with a larger percentage of women hires than I did.

This seems like false reasoning. She is using an intentionally biased sample (the candidate pipeline in a narrow subspecialty of software engineering) to draw conclusions about the larger software engineering candidate pipeline, which actually has a higher representation of women - not high overall - but higher than both her subspecialty and more importantly, higher than the current representation of women at tech companies.

> If we increase the inflow of women into tech education, we will automatically increase diversity in hiring.

This is not enough. She would have us believe that companies are automata that will just adapt to the changing composition of the pipeline with no other action needed. It's an absolution of corporate responsibility for diversity (that perhaps reflects her self interest as a founder/executive). But companies are not automata, they are entities with their own inertial biases, and in the case of large companies, these biases often are often rooted in the communities from which the companies sprang.

Companies, especially major tech companies, are major cultural influencers - their businesses are based in part on the power of their cultural influence, and with that comes disproportionate responsibility to act, especially when society at large has not been successful enough at solving the pipeline problem.

replies(1): >>15011011 #
SilkRoadie ◴[] No.15011011[source]
It is not false reasoning. She is relating to her specific experiences. Where I work 80-90% of applications are from men. We now have 2 women on our team but it is still male dominated. The women are there because they were best we could find when we was hiring just like everyone else we have employed. They have earned it with their knowledge and skill.

Employing for any other reason will likely demoralise the team because they will likely under perform. They will likely under perform because instead of finding the best person, you find the best person based on a subset of arbitrary equality rules.

There is no reason why 50% of tech jobs cannot go to women. The main barrier we come across is there aren't enough skilled women applying. I think the author hit the nail on the head. It reflects my experiences.

You appear be asking tech companies to pass over excellent candidates so they can lead the way on equality. To have equality for equalities sake. It's wrong. Where there are descrepancies between genders we should ask why they exist.

Take child care, the majority of people in childcare are women. Should we be passing over women with years of experience and excellent qualifications to bump the number of men in the industry?

I would love to see a few guys at my kids nursery. However they should be there because they were the best for job. I would pull my kid out of the nursery if they passed over better candidates to fix this gender ratio. I want the best outcome for my children.

The same is true with business. Merit is the measure that matters. More women in tech will lead to more meriting jobs in the industry, which in turn will lead to the male/female ratio improving.

replies(1): >>15011331 #
1. danans ◴[] No.15011331[source]
> You appear be asking tech companies to pass over excellent candidates so they can lead the way on equality.

That is absolutely not what I said. I'm saying tech companies should take active measures to counter the historical bias against qualified under-represented candidates, while simultaneously engaging in corporate efforts to influence the pipeline to produce more qualified candidates from those under-represented groups. If you don't think that such a historical bias against qualified female candidates exists at all stages of the candidate pipeline, from primary school through to job interviews, then we disagree on the basic assumptions.

The author is insisting that the sorts of efforts I described should not be the responsibility of corporations, but rather should be the result of virtuous charitable actions of individuals volunteering their time. This is like arguing that corporations should do no charitable giving to fight hunger, or fund environmental initiatives, and it should be left solely to charitable individuals to feed the hungry or advocate for a cleaner environment (I realize there are significant number of people who also hold that belief).

Fighting these sorts of large complex problems takes a lot of resources coordinated and guided by a set of values. Today, for better or for worse, those things lie in the hands of corporations. We could argue about whether that should be the case (i.e. perhaps government should be the responsible party), but it is manifestly the case today.