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Icedcool ◴[] No.15010185[source]
"In the name of diversity, when we fill quotas to check boxes, we fuck it up for the genuinely amazing women in tech."

Awesome. A plea towards hiring based on quality, rather than quotas.

Towards a group that is judged by the content and quality of their character rather than some of the variation of an attempt to combat discrimination through discrimination.

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JimboOmega ◴[] No.15010360[source]
So quotas are terrible, yes.

But what if there are still biases in hiring? That someone sees a woman and assumes this or that about her based on gender alone?

My own experience as a transgender person is that there are people who, as my gender presentation has shifted, really seem to view me as less competent. Not in a "girl's can't code" way, but like steadily viewing me as more junior, needing more hand holding, giving me simpler tasks, that kind of thing.

It's subtle enough to make me constantly second guess myself, but it's noticeable.

It happens in interviews, too. It's very easy to rationalize biases within certain bounds. Those kind of things - and toxic environments - are what needs to be corrected most in today's tech workplace.

Of course correcting toxic environments early in the pipeline would be the best, because then the men that share those environments don't normalize them, either! But it's not fair to ignore the adult realities of the current working world and just dump all the blame on the early part of the pipeline.

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alexandercrohde ◴[] No.15010417[source]
So how would you counteract that stereotype/bias?

Author would suggest lowering the bar [for women] would only reinforce such stereotypes, do you agree or disagree?

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iainmerrick ◴[] No.15010503{3}[source]
I keep thinking about orchestras, where simply auditioning performers behind a curtain completely fixes the bias problem.

Of course the trick is that you don't need to see the candidates or talk to them, just listen to their playing. In software, we would need to find some similarly effective way to measure anonymized performance.

In fact, completely aside from fixing gender and racial biases, that's something we could really use just to make good hiring decisions! I don't believe anyone really knows how to make consistently great hires in software.

For a start, the hiring decision could be based on gender-anonymized feedback from the interviewer(s), although that obviously wouldn't fix any underlying biases in the feedback itself.

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fapjacks ◴[] No.15010685{4}[source]
There appear to be problems with this approach that wouldn't be acceptable to the people driving the diversity effort [0]. To summarize the linked example: ElectronConf tried a gender-blind selection process for speakers, and when they lifted the veil on their selections, discovered they had only selected men to speak, so they canceled the conference.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14480868

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1. ryandvm ◴[] No.15010786{5}[source]
Google Code Jam has the same problem. I'm honestly surprised that Google hasn't yet tried to intervene with some sort diversity enchantment...