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387 points pedro84 | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.207s | source
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yifanlu ◴[] No.14860722[source]
The article mentions

> Broadpwn is a fully remote attack against Broadcom’s BCM43xx family of WiFi chipsets, which allows for code execution on the main application processor in both Android and iOS.

But it doesn't go into any details on this privilege escalation actually works for iOS and more specifically that it doesn't require additional exploits. Can anyone explain this in more detail? If this actually allows code execution on iOS application processor, that means we have a jailbreak right?

replies(2): >>14861182 #>>14861247 #
revelation ◴[] No.14861182[source]
The block diagram shows a PCIE connection to the application processor, which enables DMA. Most modern systems have a MMU to prevent the peripheral from DMAing to memory areas not specifically reserved for it, but given (certainly Android) systems run oldschool kernels hacked together by the last kind of crowd you want working on them it's probably not enabled or setup correctly.

The other more obvious privilege escalation is that there is still a kernel driver on the application processor talking to the chipset. There is per se no reason to distrust data coming from the chipset, so these often aren't written as defensive as they should be and could contain trivially exploitable assumptions on what the chipset will send and do.

replies(2): >>14861219 #>>14861336 #
yifanlu ◴[] No.14861219[source]
> Most modern systems have a MMU to prevent the peripheral from DMAing to memory areas not specifically reserved for it, but given (certainly Android) systems run oldschool kernels hacked together by the last kind of crowd you want working on them it's probably not enabled or setup correctly.

I'm not sure it's fair to assume iOS IOMMU isn't set up properly just because that's the case on many (most?) android phones. According to the author, most android phones don't even have KASLR which iOS had since iOS6. I would assume IOMMU exists and is working properly unless someone has evidence otherwise (quick google shows very little information on iOS + IOMMU). If a DMA attack is indeed successful on iOS devices, I think that would be substantial enough to write about.

> The other more obvious privilege escalation is that there is still a kernel driver on the application processor talking to the chipset.

I would consider that a separate exploit--but even then you still need a KASLR bypass (another exploit?) at the very least to gain control.

> so these often aren't written as defensive as they should be

On the contrary, the market rate for a iOS jailbreak chain is upwards $1 million USD so I'd be surprised if a single exploit gives you full system control.

replies(1): >>14861261 #
revelation ◴[] No.14861261[source]
I didn't want to suggest that iOS is insecure because Android systems are. For Android we know most of them are hopeless, on iOS it's security by obscurity all the way with just a generally good "track record".

Well, they patched something. Maybe they just patched the firmware image that is loaded onto the chipset on boot and there was no privilege escalation onto the iOS application processor. But if there was, the obscurity means criminals can easily look at the patch to see what it was and exploit that while the public knows nothing.

replies(3): >>14861307 #>>14861783 #>>14861946 #
Gaelan ◴[] No.14861946[source]
> criminals can easily look at the patch to see what it was and exploit that while the public knows nothing.

Huh? If criminals can “easily” inspect the patch, why can’t the public?

replies(2): >>14862020 #>>14862021 #
1. doctorless ◴[] No.14862020[source]
They can, but ease is a term that is conditional on expertise.