←back to thread

387 points pedro84 | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.681s | source
Show context
Animats ◴[] No.14860964[source]
C's lack of array size info strikes again:

    memcpy(current_wmm_ie, ie->data, ie->len);
where "ie" points to data obtained from the net.
replies(2): >>14861129 #>>14861284 #
corndoge ◴[] No.14861284[source]
Programmer's mistake for not validating data, not the fault of C language mechanics. Yes it would be easier if <hll features>, still gotta be careful. I've made plenty of these mistakes but never blamed the language.
replies(5): >>14861427 #>>14861944 #>>14861961 #>>14866096 #>>14871609 #
orf ◴[] No.14861427[source]
If a manufacturer makes and sells a gun that keeps going off in people's holsters and shooting people in the foot, the answer is not to say "it's the user's fault for not using it properly. I've shot myself in the foot hundreds of times and I don't blame the manufacturer".

Or something. That analogy sounded better in my head than written down. The point is that IMO the blame lies squarely with the C language: it's a language that's used in a lot of complex parsing code and provides pretty much nothing to help with this, and if anything actually puts roadblocks in the way.

replies(4): >>14861447 #>>14863535 #>>14864749 #>>14872582 #
corndoge ◴[] No.14861447[source]
I shot myself in the foot yet I don't blame the manufacturer for not putting a safety on the gun since I'm the one that bought it with full knowledge of the caveats
replies(4): >>14861489 #>>14861731 #>>14861881 #>>14861917 #
1. MaulingMonkey ◴[] No.14861917[source]
My experience is that most C programmers don't know about many of the caveats about the C programming language.

Are you aware that atoi("a"); is undefined behavior? It can crash, it can launch nethack, it can return 0.

replies(1): >>14862385 #
2. corndoge ◴[] No.14862385[source]
yes I'm aware that parsing a letter as an an integer is undefined behavior, it's in the manual
replies(1): >>14862540 #
3. MaulingMonkey ◴[] No.14862540[source]
> yes I'm aware that parsing a letter as an an integer is undefined behavior

Excellent!

> it's in the manual

It's not in MSDN: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/yd5xkb5c.aspx

It's not in the manpages: https://linux.die.net/man/3/atoi

Cppreference understates it has having an undefined return value, rather than undefined behavior outright: http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/string/byte/atoi

Tutorialspoint defines the behavior as returning 0, and fresh2refresh makes no mention of undefined behavior.

My eighth google hit for atoi finally, finally, gets it right: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/at...

If you buy or pirate a copy of e.g. the C89 standard, or refer to one of the free draft versions, it's of course properly documented there too. Neither shows up in the first 50 google results, naturally.

And, of course, by google result 9, we're back to square one - incorrectly defining the behavior as being "returning 0": https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/C_Programming/stdlib.h/atoi