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1247 points mangoman | 12 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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elicash ◴[] No.13105963[source]
I worked at a grocery store for several years, and one thing I recall is customers CONSTANTLY putting items back in a random aisle, rather than where they found it.

I wonder how this tech deals with that? Maybe they figured that out, too. But I was amused in the video when I saw the customer putting it back where it belonged, because that's not how I remember that going...

All that said, this is fantastic and exciting.

Edit: I also hope they're already thinking about EBT cards and WIC.

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Cthulhu_ ◴[] No.13106046[source]
I really wouldn't trust 'picked up off the shelf' detection, not without the whole thing looking like a giant vending machine. RFID tags on products probably works better.
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1. joezydeco ◴[] No.13106119[source]
I don't think the system works like that.

From my first quick take of the video, the app+turnstyle is used to identify you to the store. The video system then tracks your position as you walk around.

When you walk out, the items are recognized and tallied by a large RFID sweep. Funneling you back out through a turnstyle makes sure the vision system knows it's you. Notice that you don't need to barcode yourself on the way out, and the exit system is phone agnostic (it's not checking for an NFC or Apple Pay tag or anything).

The whole "tracking individual items as they come on and off the shelves" task is a very complex thing. But tracking bodies as they walk around a 1,500 square foot room isn't that hard.

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2. cobookman ◴[] No.13106245[source]
Not as crazy as it sounds. With RAIN Rfid you can get the xyz location of a tag from ~30ft away accurate to 6" in realtime.

Examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1LykdRWTfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hCA8L7v-R8

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3. benmcnelly ◴[] No.13106630[source]
Also, since the app is still on your phone there is no reason they can't be using it to gather data as well.
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4. TulliusCicero ◴[] No.13106792[source]
> When you walk out, the items are recognized and tallied by a large RFID sweep.

But the video clearly shows the items being recognized as someone takes them from a shelf (and puts them back). The items don't need to be recognized at the time you walk out, the store just needs to know that you've walked out.

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5. joezydeco ◴[] No.13106875[source]
I don't think that helps in the use case presented here.

What is really needed is a way to talk to multiple RFID tags quickly without any crosstalk. Think of a handbag with a dozen candy bars in it. How do you scan them all quickly without missing any?

The goal has always been to scan something large in one pass, say a shrink-wrapped pallet of items that could number in the hundreds or thousands. Obviously this is technology that Amazon could benefit from as well, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of technology overlap here.

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6. joezydeco ◴[] No.13106912[source]
You mean that floating list in the air?

I think that's just visually giving you an idea of what's happening. Like I said earlier, I'm giving a simple naive presentation of how the system might work. Or, at the least, how I would design it without dealing with finicky shelf sensors. Ask anyone that has ever worked in a hotel with in-room minibars how well those things pan out in real life.

Unless that store is just a mockup and not how it really looks and works, I see nothing on those shelves or in the sky above it that is watching you put that cupcake back on the shelf.

The real way to find out is if someone in the demo video can pull their phone out of their pocket mid-trip and see their current inventory and total price. But I didn't see that in the video.

The girl in the video at 1:26 looks at her list and total, but after she's been through the exit turnstyle.

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7. tedmiston ◴[] No.13106966{3}[source]
They did say sensor fusion. I'm not sure if they have indoor location tracking in the app but it seems reasonable.
8. pastullo ◴[] No.13106981{3}[source]
Agree with you, would be much easier to just checkout once when you leave.

The video makes it look like it's constantly up to date, but that sounds quite complicated (despite dropping the ML, DL buzz words).

9. cobookman ◴[] No.13107280{3}[source]
> How do you scan them all quickly without missing any?

Most RAIN Rfid readers have a read rate of 800+ tags/second. Door portals are a solved solution and now phased arrays are on the market which scan all items in realtime. Take a look at the impinj marketing material for more information. For example the RS2000 chip: http://www.impinj.com/products/reader-chips/indy-rs2000/

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10. TulliusCicero ◴[] No.13107839{3}[source]
> You mean that floating list in the air? I think that's just visually giving you an idea of what's happening.

A friend at Amazon said he tried to trick it by taking two items at a time and it got it right every time, so yeah it does appear to track when you take the items.

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11. joezydeco ◴[] No.13108092{4}[source]
That's a definite plus. I was just saying that the long-range position tracking might not be as important.
12. joezydeco ◴[] No.13108103{4}[source]
Did the system know before checkout, or after?