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Elon Musk on How to Build the Future

(www.ycombinator.com)
1106 points sama | 1 comments | 15 Sep 16 18:05 UTC | HN request time: 0.33s | source
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misterbishop ◴[15 Sep 16 19:31 UTC] No.12509090[source]▶
How to build the future: Take $5B in public subsidy for boondoggle technologies, and then tell everyone you're fiscally conservative.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-2015...

replies(1): >>12509319 #
Applejinx ◴[15 Sep 16 19:57 UTC] No.12509319[source]▶
You see, you've already lost me because nearly everything worthwhile has been funded by public sector money, notably space and the Internet. To my mind, claiming to be 'fiscally conservative' may be a good tactical claim as a CEO of rapidly expanding publically held companies, but in practical terms it's a terrible idea. If Elon is turning public money into technology, I'm enthusiastic about that. I'm sure there are ways to nationalize his industry if it proves necessary.

Better that, than privatizing things: that's a recipe for bad answers and a untimely demise due to market forces. Maybe I don't want AI, electric cars, and space travel to die because some hedge fund needed immediate profits the very next quarter.

replies(1): >>12509679 #
misterbishop ◴[15 Sep 16 20:45 UTC] No.12509679[source]▶
Two points for your consideration:

#1: We clearly have the resources to publicly invest in innovative technologies like electric cars, AI and space travel. So why must these investments go directly into the hands of a few individuals to make all the final decisions (and who have bad habits of not paying their workers btw)? Why can't we make these investments through democratically accountable teams, perhaps via some academic mechanism?

#2: When you make a risky investment as an individual in a startup, you expect to get a commensurate return on that investment if the startup becomes successful in the marketplace. Why don't the collective investments of the public in Musk's ventures come back to citizens in a kind of public dividend?

replies(2): >>12509984 #>>12510723 #
1. danhak ◴[15 Sep 16 23:29 UTC] No.12510723[source]▶
The government investments do not "go directly into the hands of a few individuals..."

The Federal tax credits for plug-in cars, for example, are available to all automakers (or more accurately, the customers of all automakers). You could start an electric car company today and your customers would be eligible for the credit. Nissan Motor Co. is the #1 beneficiary of the tax credits to date.

All automakers were eligible for the DOE's ATVM loan program. Tesla received (and paid back) about $500 million under the auspices of the program. Ford received $5.9 billion and Nissan received $1.4 billion. Neither Ford nor Nissan have paid back the loan.

The Federal government bailed out GM and Chrysler to the tune of about $20 billion.

We've spent trillions of dollars to secure our interests in the middle east, which keeps oil supplies stable to the benefit of ICE automakers.

People always complain about government subsidies when there are articles about Elon Musk, but it is hardly ever even-handed.