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A Report on the Flawed 2016 Democratic Primaries

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212 points DamienSF | 1 comments | 27 Jul 16 05:59 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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vannevar ◴[27 Jul 16 16:46 UTC] No.12174358[source]▶
I think the most interesting (and perhaps hopeful) aspect here is that people now have an expectation of fairness in the selection of party candidates. That's a relatively new phenomenon. In the past, I think people widely assumed that the party was biased towards individual candidates. Even now, that's clearly the case when the sitting President is a candidate. I personally think that expecting an unbiased party structure is unrealistic, given the very nature of the organization. The party doesn't have a product, other than its opinion. The idea that an organization of partisans only arrives at that collective opinion through primaries and caucuses seems quite naive to me.
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brudgers ◴[27 Jul 16 17:52 UTC] No.12175036[source]▶
To me there is an unquestioned premise to the article: why should the state [as in "government"] conduct elections on behalf of political parties. Enrolling voters as Democrat or Republican or whatever and then restricting the voter's access to ballot items based upon that enrollment [or non-enrollment] does not seem to be the business of the government.

A political party is free to change the rules for nominating candidates however and whenever it chooses. It is free to nullify the decision of those voting in a particular primary. A political party is free to nominate whomever it chooses [and almost certainly multiple candidates for the same office it wishes should it choose].

Ultimately the party, not a judge, chooses whose vote matters and whose doesn't. Placing the imprimatur of the state upon a political party's process doesn't change that or make the process of candidate nomination little 'd' democratic. The people within a political party charged with making the rules for candidate selection are not elected or selected little 'd' democratically. The process of nominating candidates is not little 'd' democratic in any meaningful sense.

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maxerickson ◴[27 Jul 16 18:06 UTC] No.12175177[source]▶
A political party is free to change the rules for nominating candidates however and whenever it chooses.

This is something we should take away from them. The outcomes of private party activities shouldn't have any impact on the names that appear on ballots. They can maybe mark the names they choose to endorse as an organization, but we should throw away the system where the parties are directly involved in putting names on the ballot (of course they'd be indirectly involved, as an organized group is, uh, organized and thus more ready to act together, so would have an easy time dealing with ballot petitions).

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white-flame ◴[27 Jul 16 18:27 UTC] No.12175343[source]▶
There are many barriers to entry to get a name on the ballot, and political parties will rally together to help jump through those hoops to get specific names on. If there were lower barriers to entry, the ballots would be flooded.

I think the barriers to entry should likely remain high, but we need an overhaul of the voting system itself to break the two-party system, which itself is just a side-effect of the mechanics of our voting process, not anything mandated.

If I remember correctly, early on in the country's history the founders noticed that the mechanics of voting were trending towards a limited two-party system, and that consternated them. Most every (if not actually every) democracy established after the USA has a voting style and representative bodies that allows more parties to coexist, or creative destruction within the set of active parties to thrive.

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maxerickson ◴[27 Jul 16 18:36 UTC] No.12175423[source]▶
Why is having lots of names on the ballot a bad thing?

I'd rather have some system of arbitrarily limiting the number of names on the ballot than a system that privileges parties. For instance, for statewide elections you could choose the 5 (or 10!) names that had satisfied the ballot requirements in the most voting districts (so it doesn't matter that Uncle Larry likes to "run" for state senate in his home county, he doesn't kick someone with a better/actual shot at winning off).

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madgar ◴[27 Jul 16 19:47 UTC] No.12175943[source]▶
There are 1,862 candidates for President right now [0]. The 5 or 10 candidates you will see on the ballot in your statewide election for President are those that have satisfied the ballot requirements in the state.

It turns out that satisfying the ballot requirements is already a challenge requiring organization, and that organization is called a political party.

[0] http://www.fec.gov/data/CandidateSummary.do

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maxerickson ◴[27 Jul 16 19:54 UTC] No.12175994{3}[source]▶
Yes, but in many jurisdictions the rules are simpler for the parties than for some rando. That's my objection. The rando shouldn't have a higher bar than the established organization, they should have the same bar. Partly for the reason you highlight, backing of a party already makes it significantly more likely that someone will succeed in getting on many ballots.
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jessedhillon ◴[27 Jul 16 20:03 UTC] No.12176073{4}[source]▶
What problem is lowering the barrier to entry for the balloting process solving? If someone has broad and genuine support, they will be able to either apply their own resources or raise funds to completing the paperwork necessary to get on the ballot. Party-supported or not, registration is a relatively small investment of time, compared to what it will take to mount a successful campaign.

The public has a vested interest in having a ballot present only those candidates who can demonstrate a minimum-level of popular support. Otherwise why have a qualification process at all -- we can give voters phonebooks to take with them into the booth, and they can find the name of whichever citizen they feel should be elected.

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1. maxerickson ◴[27 Jul 16 20:31 UTC] No.12176271{5}[source]▶
It's the parties that have already have a lower barrier. My argument is that we should put them on equal footing with everyone else.