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212 points DamienSF | 2 comments | | HN request time: 2.882s | source
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wjnc ◴[] No.12171047[source]
I think this story does not need to be flagged, but could benefit from a very constrained discussion ('self-censoring') to not let personal political opinions take over the discussion. I'll try.

Is this a direction more modern, western democracies seem to be heading? I feel a loss of democratic appeal and subsequent machinations of all kinds by apparatuses of state to keep in power. Democratic in name, but the number of options available to the public limited to what is in line with what public officials think of as good sense.

Examples:

-DNC machinating to get Clinton elected as candidate. The public needed Russia (!) for a fresh dosis of unpopular truths about those machinations. This documents more evidence on machinations.

-The unpopular and undemocratic European Union. Examples abound. The best being the EU-constitution: struck down in popular referendums, flown in as a treaty.

-In my country, the Netherlands, a referendum in which the public voted against an EU-agreement with Ukraine (wholy within law, with very obvious machinations by state and political parties), on which both the government and EU reneged

Counter example:

-Brexit

Disclaimers

-Please, don't hit on the 'red herrings' (if any), like 'undemocratic EU'. I see it as both a fact (imho, populus does not recognize European parliament) and an opinion (mostly in the more populist parties over Europe). Not center to my view of democracies limiting decision power of the populus. -The 'public officials' need not be those paid by the state. But more broadly: those aspiring to have their organisations have a say over public policy.

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1. douche ◴[] No.12173921[source]
With regards to the DNC revelations, I'm not sure it's so much a new development, as a reversion to old Tammany Hall style machine politics. - not that I'm entirely sure that the machine wasn't employing those tactics in all the intervening years, just perhaps doing so less blatantly and covering their tracks better. Now, though, the sordid deals are not getting brokered face-to-face in smoky back rooms or over mostly untraceable phone conversations, but are leaving digital footprints that can't easily be scrubbed by the politically, if not technically, adept.
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2. coredog64 ◴[] No.12175946[source]
If you read Megan McArdle, her hypothesis is that parties have to resort to these mechanics as they no longer have more overt methods of controlling members.