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212 points DamienSF | 1 comments | | HN request time: 2.796s | source
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wjnc ◴[] No.12171047[source]
I think this story does not need to be flagged, but could benefit from a very constrained discussion ('self-censoring') to not let personal political opinions take over the discussion. I'll try.

Is this a direction more modern, western democracies seem to be heading? I feel a loss of democratic appeal and subsequent machinations of all kinds by apparatuses of state to keep in power. Democratic in name, but the number of options available to the public limited to what is in line with what public officials think of as good sense.

Examples:

-DNC machinating to get Clinton elected as candidate. The public needed Russia (!) for a fresh dosis of unpopular truths about those machinations. This documents more evidence on machinations.

-The unpopular and undemocratic European Union. Examples abound. The best being the EU-constitution: struck down in popular referendums, flown in as a treaty.

-In my country, the Netherlands, a referendum in which the public voted against an EU-agreement with Ukraine (wholy within law, with very obvious machinations by state and political parties), on which both the government and EU reneged

Counter example:

-Brexit

Disclaimers

-Please, don't hit on the 'red herrings' (if any), like 'undemocratic EU'. I see it as both a fact (imho, populus does not recognize European parliament) and an opinion (mostly in the more populist parties over Europe). Not center to my view of democracies limiting decision power of the populus. -The 'public officials' need not be those paid by the state. But more broadly: those aspiring to have their organisations have a say over public policy.

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1. matt4077 ◴[] No.12173782[source]
It may just be the local reflection of the major conflict of our times: liberal democracies vs. authoritarian capitalism.

We actually got lucky during the cold war in that the other side was fundamentally quite stupid and bound to lose their power from a lack of economic performance.

Now there's a new crop of autocrats freed from the constraints of ideology. It appears that democracy isn't actually necessary for economic development and they're raising a crop of apolitical hedonists – well-fed, entertained an thoroughly harmless for their grip on power. When a bit more loyalty is needed, a little round of in-group -> out-group hatred usually fixes it.

China, Russia, Turkey, Victor Orban, and now Donald Trump: they're betting that people prefer "democracy on rails" to the sometimes scary or frustrating life in actual freedom.

(Oh, and the EU is obviously perfectly democratic, that just doesn't depend on your or anybody's (populous does not recognize...) opinion)