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Ubuntu on Windows

(blog.dustinkirkland.com)
2049 points bpierre | 45 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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matt_wulfeck ◴[] No.11391211[source]
microsoft is leveraging FOSS Linux to get Mac users. I think it's a real smart move.

The author points to using grep and Xargs and some other tools to quickly update a package. That's the key here. These bash/Linux utilities are productivy boosters for all the Linux and Mac/bsd people out there. I can't imagine living without them and they're necessary for any system I develop on (which is currently a Mac).

replies(6): >>11391411 #>>11391451 #>>11391515 #>>11392124 #>>11392170 #>>11393505 #
1. simonlc ◴[] No.11391411[source]
I completely agree. I only really switched to OSX because getting node tools to work on windows and cygwin is a pita.
replies(2): >>11391709 #>>11392450 #
2. tostitos1979 ◴[] No.11391709[source]
I've been "stuck" with a 2010 Macbook since Apple isn't refreshing it's laptop hardware soon enough. Plus I'm sick of soldered in RAM and other BS.

For devs that do heavy Linux work (but have stuck with a Mac OS for GUI/app reasons), is it time to move (back) to Windows? If so, what would be a good laptop to get at the moment?

replies(7): >>11391787 #>>11391803 #>>11391857 #>>11392064 #>>11392420 #>>11393251 #>>11394878 #
3. snuxoll ◴[] No.11391787[source]
Dell's Inspiron line is my go-to for portable workstations. Run Linux straight on them, or if GNOME/KDE aren't your cup of tea just run Windows and put your distro of choice in a VM (I just run Fedora on everything but my gaming PC, personally).

I'm personally using a Dell XPS 13 (2014), soldered in RAM, but I did buy an ultraportable and 8GB is more than sufficient to do my all my personal work on. Work supplied me with a Lenovo W540 that is substantially more flexible, but it weighs as much as a couple bricks and I usually just leave it at home on the dock.

replies(1): >>11392023 #
4. matt_wulfeck ◴[] No.11391803[source]
I would say no, especially if your mac had an i7 and reasonable amounts of ram.
5. x1798DE ◴[] No.11391857[source]
Why not move to Linux?
replies(1): >>11391950 #
6. matt_wulfeck ◴[] No.11391950{3}[source]
Just out of curiosity, what does a Linux desktop offer that's not also natively offered in Mac and also highly polished?

Every year I try a switch to Linux desktop. This year I made it as far as trying to get multiple monitors working well. I also dabbed in gaming. In the end I went back to my work=Mac game=Windows duopoly.

replies(5): >>11392134 #>>11393355 #>>11393718 #>>11394991 #>>11401124 #
7. jpalomaki ◴[] No.11392023{3}[source]
I don't have hands on experience, but Dell XPS 15 looks like an interesting option for thoaw looking for Windows laptop that is close to 15" Macbook Pro (quad core, sleek etc).
replies(1): >>11392695 #
8. sixothree ◴[] No.11392064[source]
Thinkpad T460s. I have the T450s and like it plenty. It's definitely up there with macbook build quality.
replies(1): >>11392346 #
9. toyg ◴[] No.11392134{4}[source]
Some tools (docker etc) are typically borne on linux and later (not always) ported to OsX. Nothing you cannot get around with a bit of emulation, of course, but it can be painful at times.

The whole python ecosystem is also better on Linux overall.

Anything strictly desktop-oriented is better on OSX of course.

10. meddlepal ◴[] No.11392346{3}[source]
The T540p isn't though. I hate mine.
replies(1): >>11392956 #
11. leshow ◴[] No.11392420[source]
why not just stay on linux
12. skrebbel ◴[] No.11392450[source]
Wait, getting node to work on windows is a pita?

I know of no language runtime and ecosystem that has better cross-platform support than Node (hm ok maybe Java also). I develop solely on Windows (I just like it better) and virtually all of NPM just works on my box. Even stuff people never tested elsewhere than on their Macs, it just works. Express, webpack, mocha, phantomjs, it's really quite impressive if you ask me.

replies(3): >>11392664 #>>11393515 #>>11394316 #
13. itsananderson ◴[] No.11392664[source]
99% of the painful Node stuff on Windows comes down to native packages. To even compile, you have to install Visual Studio. Then you have to hope the module developer has a build definition that even works for Windows.
replies(1): >>11395824 #
14. NateDad ◴[] No.11392695{4}[source]
I have the XPS 15. It is almost identical to a Macbook Pro. Build quality is really awesome. Super super happy with it. The new one with the infinity edge screen is super friggin' sexy, and will absolutely be my next computer. I know a bunch of other devs on the XPS 15 as well, also very happy (we run Ubuntu, but I'm sure it's even better in Windows).
replies(1): >>11395024 #
15. criddell ◴[] No.11392956{4}[source]
I have a ThinkPad Yoga and an older ThinkPad T520. Both are pretty awful machines. Plus I really don't trust Lenovo anymore.

If I were buying a Windows machine, the only one I would consider is the Microsoft Surface Book.

replies(1): >>11393646 #
16. zeveb ◴[] No.11393251[source]
> For devs that do heavy Linux work (but have stuck with a Mac OS for GUI/app reasons), is it time to move (back) to Windows?

Why not just use Linux? It has a GUI. It has apps. It does everything a modern desktop or laptop needs to do. It really is great.

replies(3): >>11395194 #>>11400934 #>>11417562 #
17. zeveb ◴[] No.11393355{4}[source]
> Just out of curiosity, what does a Linux desktop offer that's not also natively offered in Mac and also highly polished?

A GNU userland. A plethora of tiling window managers. A selection of clean terminals. Every single thing Debian's or Arch's repos offer which one must turn to brew for.

And of course there's freedom too, which is nice.

> Every year I try a switch to Linux desktop. This year I made it as far as trying to get multiple monitors working well.

I've got multiple monitors running on Linux, over HDMI, at home & at work, at differing resolutions & orientations. I use arandr-configured xrandr scripts which set my desired orientation with a quick keystroke in my window manager. What more does one need?

replies(1): >>11393729 #
18. hatsix ◴[] No.11393515[source]
Windows Path issues and compiling native code. Between those two things, nearly everything I've ever tried on windows has failed.
19. peternicky ◴[] No.11393646{5}[source]
why don't you trust Lenovo?
replies(2): >>11393846 #>>11393907 #
20. bigger_cheese ◴[] No.11393718{4}[source]
In my own experience Linux has the following Advantages over OS X these are of course subjective:

Better Desktop environment Better Package Management More Up to date packages

Some of my knowledge of OS X is likely outdated I haven't used it since 2011

I started using Linux when I was at University late 90's early 00's (Mandrake was my first distro). I switched to OS X around 2005 and used it as my primary operating system for about 5 years.

I used OS X because I'd purchased a MacBook Pro (mostly for the hardware) I still think Macbooks are the nicest laptops I've used to this day I went through 3 iterations of Macbooks before I stopped using OS X. I used OS X because it was good enough but I never fell in love with it.

I absolutely hated the desktop environment, silly things like no ability to customise anything, lack of workspaces, having to hit command q to kill application (because the 'x' button wouldn't close them properly) stuff like that. Workspaces came in a later OS X update which addressed some of my gripes.

It was never easy to install third party packages and libraries in OS X. I think this has improved now, when I used OS X it it was a mess (especially compared to the ease of something like apt). The native system packages were always really ancient - old version of GCC, old version of emacs, python etc. Trying to install newer version of these 'default' packages was not straightforward at all I remember having huge issues getting python 3 working.

Nowadays I run Fedora very happy with it. Not compelled at all to switch back. Linux support for modern laptops is a lot better than it was when I first started using Macs.

My current job is in an 'enterprisey' environment I'm forced to use a locked down version of windows here. Almost anything would be better.

21. matt_wulfeck ◴[] No.11393729{5}[source]
Maybe HDMI is better supported that DisplayPort.
replies(1): >>11393952 #
22. jjawssd ◴[] No.11393846{6}[source]
bad build quality. also had issues with humming and generally falling apart in subtle ways while macbooks never do.
replies(1): >>11394640 #
23. r3bl ◴[] No.11393907{6}[source]
I'm pretty sure that the answer comes down to one word: Superfish.

Although, in my opinion, I wouldn't trust any laptop hardware company out there enough to use the system that came pre-installed with it, but that's for another discussion.

replies(1): >>11394358 #
24. diyorgasms ◴[] No.11393952{6}[source]
I've got monitors daisy chained using displayport on Debian, in mixed portrait and landscape modes. This is using an NVIDIA card and GNOME. It was plug-and-play.
replies(1): >>11396238 #
25. girvo ◴[] No.11394316[source]
node-gyp, though. In my experience, it's the native packages that cause problems, which is honestly to be expected because building a native library for Node to bind to in a cross-platform way is always going to be somewhat painful.
26. criddell ◴[] No.11394358{7}[source]
There has been a string of things, including Superfish.

There was also the Lenovo Solution Center problem. And the Lenovo BIOS shenanigans (or was it the Lenovo Service Engine?).

There have just been too many lapses in judgement at Lenovo. Either their competence is slipping or their ethics are. Either way, I'm done with them for now.

27. meddlepal ◴[] No.11394640{7}[source]
Lots of cheap plastic. I don't love Apple products but the build quality of their products makes PC vendor laptops and desktops look really bad.
replies(1): >>11395651 #
28. deckar01 ◴[] No.11394878[source]
Go to a brick and mortar electronics store, pick out a laptop that meets your desired specs, and do something realistic with it for a while. There are lots of little things I took for granted about Apple MacBooks that no Windows laptops could match. Touch pad, high dpi display, and cooling were never quite done right, but they are crucial for every day operations.
replies(2): >>11395170 #>>11395617 #
29. cyphar ◴[] No.11394991{4}[source]
> Just out of curiosity, what does a Linux desktop offer that's not also natively offered in Mac and also highly polished?

Freedom, a full GNU userland, proper package management of the entire system, plethora of CLI programs which can fulfil your every need and only really work on GNU/Linux, configurable, etc.

> Every year I try a switch to Linux desktop. This year I made it as far as trying to get multiple monitors working well. I also dabbed in gaming. In the end I went back to my work=Mac game=Windows duopoly.

I use multiple monitors every day for my work under OpenSUSE and Arch. They both worked with either minimal (Arch) or no (SUSE) configuration. I use DisplayPort which works pretty well.

replies(1): >>11395979 #
30. Pwngea ◴[] No.11395024{5}[source]
Which one do you have? How is it specs-wise?
replies(1): >>11397565 #
31. cheapsteak ◴[] No.11395170{3}[source]
I'm with you on the touch pad, three-finger touch-drag in particular is something I've not found a PC do well; my PCs' scroll simulated scroll momentum is also buggy (scroll, stop scrolling, Ctrl+click to open new tab, messes up the font size instead because it's still stimulating mouse wheel movement)

I'm surprised to hear someone preferring macbooks cooling though, my macbook always gets so hot relative to other laptops

32. trill1 ◴[] No.11395194{3}[source]
Right! This whole thread has me scratching my head.

Not long ago Microsoft schemed to stomp out Linux and now they've had a change of heart? Fuck Microsoft! To this day even they engage in anti-competitive bundling with OEMs, not to mention their seedy history in relation to open source.

33. willtim ◴[] No.11395617{3}[source]
I would suggest not trying to source quality hardware from an electronics store. For software development, Thinkpads more then compete with MacBooks, the keyboard is considerably better too.
replies(1): >>11396334 #
34. se6 ◴[] No.11395651{8}[source]
I prefer a great deal plastic to environmental foe aluminium. To me their use of aluminium is a very good reason not to buy Apple hardware. I have a Dell M3800 right now, and the build quality is very good. Thin, light, excellent 4K touch screen, good battery life, I easily added a second HDD to it. Not to mention that every thing works perfectly well under Linux.
replies(1): >>11396962 #
35. edwinyzh ◴[] No.11395824{3}[source]
Correct! The last time I wanted to npm-install a CLI but it needs gyp, I'm not familiar with the node thingy and I gave up after several failed attemps including installing the VC++ runtime, Python, etc....
36. tychuz ◴[] No.11395979{5}[source]
>Freedom People are not interested.
replies(1): >>11403801 #
37. willtim ◴[] No.11396238{7}[source]
That's great that it works for you. But for Skylake hardware, Displayport MST is completely broken and Intel have no plans to fix. The major players simply are not heavily investing in desktop linux, leaving the community to try and fill the gaps.
38. deckar01 ◴[] No.11396334{4}[source]
I just meant electronics stores have display models you can try before buying. I think my local stores carry Thinkpads, maybe they were IdeaPads.
39. criddell ◴[] No.11396962{9}[source]
> good battery life

What? The M3800 had terrible battery life under Windows and it was even worse under Linux.

40. NateDad ◴[] No.11397565{6}[source]
I have one that is now 2.5 years old. Specs-wise, it was basically top of the line. Quad Core i7, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD, 3200x1800 touchscreen, GeForce 750m GPU (which was one of the best mobile GPUs back then). It has a lot of nice touches that lower end models don't have, like 2 or 3 USB3 ports, with 2 or 3 USB ports that have power even when the laptop is off (super handy for charging a phone on an airplane while your laptop is still in your bag, for example). Wireless N networking, HDMI and MiniDP connections, able to drive two external monitors at once along with the laptop screen (up to 1920x1200 over HDMI and 4k over miniDP). The touchpad is pretty decent. backlit chicklet keyboard with variable brightness. SD card slot, 1/4" headset port... the only thing it's missing is an ethernet port, but that's just because it's too thin for the port. A USB3 gigabit ethernet adapter is cheap and works great.

And it's pretty damn light for a 15" laptop. Easily one-handable (I think it's like 2 pounds IIRC).

And what's great is that you can crack it open and replace stuff - I swapped out the hard drive and replaced a malfunctioning battery myself with just a torx screw driver (super tiny torx, but still, no glue or special tools or anything).

It was pretty expensive - like $1900 IIRC. You're paying for the high res screen, better build quality, and thinness/lightness. But it's still like $500+ less than an equivalent macbook.

replies(1): >>11406624 #
41. khattam ◴[] No.11400934{3}[source]
>Why not just use Linux?

I would LOVE to ditch OS X and run Linux on it, only problem is NO DISTRO supports latest hardware. There are always things that don't work and it gets tiring.

I tried to run Ubuntu on my old Dell Laptop... there would always be some issues related to graphics card, wifi or some shit, overheating, battery drain... or something not working. At the end, had to go for Windows with Ubuntu on vagrant boxes and Desktop Ubuntu in Virtualbox.

Then on my new Macbook Pro, I wanted to run Ubuntu 14.04... but of course, so many things don't work... like right clicking on the touch pad, WiFi or such simplest of features you'd expect to be supported in such widely available and pretty standard hardware... but NOPE. So, it's vagrant and Virtualbox running mostly Ubuntu on OS X again. I am actually considering installing Windows and running Linux on a VM inside it.

42. khattam ◴[] No.11401124{4}[source]
>Just out of curiosity, what does a Linux desktop offer that's not also natively offered in Mac and also highly polished?

I use Mac OS X and this is what I miss about Linux:

- Clean package/software management and updates.

- Basic customizability without having to install 3rd party binaries from untrusted sources

- Multiple filesystem support (NTFS write not supported out of the box... needing 3rd party software... ext support has to be compiled, breaks with updates... generally PITA)

- Easy installation of software/libraries from source (generally PITA to set up toolchain to compile general cross platform open source software)

- Proper desktop environment (the one that OS X has is shit compared to Gnome)

- Proper file manager (the one that OS X has is shit compared to Nautilus)

- Up to date and standard command-line tools (The ones in OS X are old... for example check the version of unzip... they can't unpack zip files created by new zip tool)

- Better command line system wide file search (I love mlocate, the one in OS X is shit)

- Ability to run docker natively

43. cyphar ◴[] No.11403801{6}[source]
I am a person, therefore a subset of people. I am interested. QED. Not to mention that that wasn't the only thing I mentioned, it was just the first because it's the most important.
44. Pwngea ◴[] No.11406624{7}[source]
Wow, sounds awesome. Was thinking about getting a macbook but probably won't anymore.
45. JdeBP ◴[] No.11417562{3}[source]
With UbuntuBSD (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11326681) the equivalent question is "Why not just use PC-BSD?"