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Go channels are bad

(www.jtolds.com)
298 points jtolds | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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sagichmal ◴[] No.11211112[source]
This is a frustrating and overly-exasperated post which reaches conclusions that have always been part of the Go canon. APIs should be designed synchronously, and the callers should orchestrate concurrency if they choose -- yes! Channels are useful in some circumstances, but if you just want to synchronize access to shared memory (like the author's example) then you should just use a mutex -- yes! These are well understood truths.

Novices to the language have a tendency to overuse channels. Here is Andrew Gerrand addressing precisely this point two years ago at GopherCon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-kkf76TDHE&t=815

Neither the referenced performance characteristics via Tyler Treat, nor the FUD surrounding channel-based program architecture, invalidate channels generally. One does have to think carefully about ownership hierarchies: only one goroutine gets to close the channel. And if it's in a hot loop, a channel will always perform worse than a mutex: channels use mutexes internally. But plenty of problems are solved very elegantly with channel-based CSP-style message passing.

It's unfortunate that articles like this are written and gain traction. The explicit instruction to [new] Go programmers is that they should avoid channels, even that they are badly implemented, and both of those things are false.

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bad_user ◴[] No.11211262[source]
> APIs should be designed synchronously, and the callers should orchestrate concurrency if they choose

Wait, why would you say that?

In general, if "orchestrating concurrency" involves guarding access to shared mutable state, then you can't orchestrate it at the callers site. It would be a massive encapsulation leak, because synchronization is not composable, requires special knowledge, plus you don't necessarily know how to synchronize unless you have knowledge about internals. Furthermore, because it is after the fact, your only choice of handling it is by means of mutexes, which has really terrible performance characteristics. Even if you could do ordering by other means, you end up paying the price of LOCK XCHG or whatever mutexes translate to, not to mention that you'll have problems if you want (soft) real-time behavior, because now you can end up with both dead-locks and live-locks.

And this brings us to another problem. If you end up doing such synchronization in Go, then Go's M:N multi-threading ends up doing more harm than good, because if you need such synchronization, you also need to fine tune your thread-pools and at this point 1:1 would be better. On top of 1:1 platforms you can build M:N solutions, but it doesn't work well in the other direction.

> Novices to the language have a tendency to overuse channels

Novices to software development have a tendency to overuse mutexes as well.

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1. jerf ◴[] No.11211353[source]
"In general, if "orchestrating concurrency" involves guarding access to shared mutable state, then you can't orchestrate it at the callers site."

What this generally means in Go is that it is an antipattern for your library to provide something like "a method that makes an HTTP request in a goroutine". In Go, you should simply provide code that "makes an HTTP request", and it's up to the user to decide whether they want to run that in a goroutine.

The rest of what you're talking about is a completely different issue.

Channels are smelly in an API. IIRC in the entire standard library there's less than 10 functions/methods that return a channel. But the use case does occasionally arise.