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623 points franzb | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.256s | source
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usaphp ◴[] No.10564013[source]
I don't understand how can you talk about ISIS, Nazis and Communists in the same sentence? Communism has nothing to do with violence compared to ISIS and Nazis...

Edit: Why downvotes? Idea of communism does not propose violence, Nazis and ISIS on the other hand do.

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jamhan ◴[] No.10564083[source]
Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Kim Il Sung - just to name a couple of famous exponents of communism. Perhaps you are mistaking the ideal of communism with the actual practice of it, which has proven to be just as genocidal as anything else in history.
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coldtea ◴[] No.10564216[source]
Sure, be we could name the famous exponents of non-communist states too, and amass a huge blood toll that rivals and surpasses these people.

Heck, there were 2 world wars in which communists countries were only involved in the second, and only on the allies side. How many people were killed there, including civilians?

And let's not get started in the 18th-19th century history, before marxism was even invented...

War, murder and dictatorship are what they are -- they don't just belong to one single side of the political spectrum.

In Indonesia, for one example, nearly a million communist sympathizers were executed by right wingers (as were in Pinochet's Chile and elsewhere). This is an interesting watch:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2375605/

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jamhan ◴[] No.10564325[source]
Your comment is irrelevant to the point being discussed, which was specifically about communism. It's akin to saying, "We excuse X for doing something bad because Y (something to which we are ideologically opposed) did the same bad thing". In other words, it's the "side", not the "principle" you are arguing. If you take that position you can be an apologist for practically anything that happens.
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1. coldtea ◴[] No.10565644[source]
>Your comment is irrelevant to the point being discussed, which was specifically about communism.

Only under the naive assumption that we assess things in isolation and not comparatively and in historical perspective.

>It's akin to saying, "We excuse X for doing something bad because Y (something to which we are ideologically opposed) did the same bad thing".

No, it's more akin to saying "You singled out X as the cause of something bad when it's also an attribute of Y".

E.g. something like: "- Python is slow because it's a GC language". "- Nope, Java and Swift also have GC and are very fast".

Also note that I never said anything about "excusing" -- I actually condemn both.

>In other words, it's the "side", not the "principle" you are arguing. If you take that position you can be an apologist for practically anything that happens.

What you can actually be is pragmatic, someone who assesses things in historical and relative perspective, instead of taking sides and singling out.

It's amazing how someone that begins by saying that "this discussion is only about X, anything else is irrelevant", accuses someone adding the stats for Y for comparison as "taking sides".