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623 points franzb | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.891s | source
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cryptica ◴[] No.10563894[source]
This soils the reputation of islam. I know some good people (muslims) who suffer from prejudice on a daily basis because of attacks like these.

Being a muslim in a foreign country is an increasingly difficult and isolating experience.

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neuro_imager ◴[] No.10564822[source]
There's no question that the ideology of islam - or at least the ideology of several of its sects is a critical element in these attacks. Claiming otherwise is leftist PC nonsense.

Sure there are many good muslims, most of whom you will find adhere to a secular ideology and western value system despite labelling themselves "muslim".

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1. return0 ◴[] No.10565276[source]
I think the focus in Islam itself is misleading. The Ottoman empire was muslim for hundreds of years yet christians and muslims did not fight against each other on religious grounds, and there was definitely no such fringe fanaticism. My grandmother remembered that people were sad when muslims had to leave the balkans due to national population exchanges back in the beginning of the last century.

The terrorists you see today would become terrorists in the name of Christ just as well. Having said that, it's true that certain groups can be identified as "bad" and labeled so, and it seems that the one unifying characteristic is their islamic faith, although there are other national characteristics as well. Saying that we need to defend against "Islam" would be too broad a target, and the terrorists use that to their advantage. In Europe, we need to stop treating muslim populations as minorities, start treating them as european citizens, and demand that their religious leaders contribute to public safety. They need to actively engage in the expulsion of radicalized people from their religious communities and preach against the sentiment that justifies the attacks. Laisez-faire comes at a price to everyone, and muslims are not excluded from it.The terrorists have been bastardizing the meaning of Islam for 4-5 decades now. Maybe Islam should be having it's own velvet revolution.

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2. kansface ◴[] No.10586563[source]
My grandmother remembered those times differently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
3. neuro_imager ◴[] No.10587067[source]
I'm sorry but I disagree with most of your comment (with the exception that we concur that the muslim population needs to take responsibility for their own communities - through their religious leaders being more vocal about "fanatic" elements).

You seam to have a very rosy picture of the Ottoman empire.Without going into too much detail, most historians would agree that it was an aggressive expansionist empire with intolerance to non-islamic sects.

"The terrorists you see today would become terrorists in the name of Christ just as well." - This is patently absurd, at least in this century, and a horrendously apologist argument.

I would recommend reading several key articles illustrating the Saudi Wahabi link to ISIS and how its clear that this is an intrinsically Islamist problem: eg.

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-...

Also, I'd advise reading Sam Harris's "Sleepwalking Toward Armageddon"

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/sleepwalking-toward-armag...