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Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

(www.nytimes.com)
623 points franzb | 1 comments | 14 Nov 15 00:25 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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po1nter ◴[14 Nov 15 00:34 UTC] No.10563599[source]▶
According to iTele there are now 118 dead.

Edit: Now it's up to 140. What a sad day :(

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toyg ◴[14 Nov 15 00:42 UTC] No.10563630[source]▶
Reworded to avoid offence (hopefully): deaths are not irrelevant, but their exact precise number is irrelevant. What matters is the scale of the security failure, compounded by the fact that they suffered a similar one less than a year ago and they were currently on high-alert (because they've only just started bombing Syria).

The knowledge that a network could carry out such a widespread and well-coordinated attack without being preempted, in a situation of maximum alert, will heavy on the minds of any French citizen regardless of whether victims were 118 or 119. Basically, the French security system has been revealed as completely ineffective. That is a huge problem.

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sosborn ◴[14 Nov 15 00:53 UTC] No.10563681[source]▶
> Basically, the French security system has been revealed as completely ineffective.

How can a country possibly prevent these things while still maintaining a free society?

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fein[dead post] ◴[14 Nov 15 01:04 UTC] No.10563756[source]▶
Arm your citizens.

Edit: Seems HN would rather die on their knees. Shame.

blisterpeanuts ◴[14 Nov 15 01:15 UTC] No.10563813{3}[source]▶
This is not such a bad idea. Unfortunately, it won't help in controlled places like a concert hall (as tonight) where patrons will be scanned at the door. If not today, undoubtedly they'll start doing a lot more of this.

On the street and in restaurants, that's another story.

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darkr ◴[14 Nov 15 01:26 UTC] No.10563866{4}[source]▶
Depends if the French are as disposed to shooting each other as Americans are. Over 10,000 Americans are killed by gun violence every year. This is excluding ~19,000 firearm suicides. Since 9/11, the number of U.S. citizens killed in terrorist attacks each year has never surpassed 75.
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blisterpeanuts ◴[14 Nov 15 02:16 UTC] No.10564075{5}[source]▶
According to bjs.gov (Bureau of Justice Statistics), it's been around 11-12,000 gun homicides in recent years, down from around 16,000 a few years ago. Over half of those are black-on-black shootings, mainly gang related.

If you control for these gangland shootings, the per capita rate in the U.S. is about the same as Western Europe and Canada.

The U.S. has a socio-economic problem in the ghetto areas, not a gun problem per se, unless you want to argue that it's too easy for gangbangers to obtain guns.

Law abiding citizens with guns aren't doing most of the shootings. Suicides, that's a different story.

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1. onion2k ◴[14 Nov 15 06:39 UTC] No.10564755{6}[source]▶
So citizens carrying guns doesn't stop, or even reduce, the level of crime. The only impact on society is gang warfare and more effective suicides. That sounds like good evidence to ban guns to me - the benefit (fewer deaths) would far outweigh the cost (freedom to own a gun that evidently doesn't protect you from crime).