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276 points chei0aiV | 9 comments | | HN request time: 1.123s | source | bottom
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n0us ◴[] No.10458463[source]
I really could do without "considered harmful" titles. x86 has been one of the most influential technologies of all time and a clickbait title doesn't do it justice imo.
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wyager ◴[] No.10458692[source]
So were PHP and goto statements.

How influential something is has nothing to do with how good it is.

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vezzy-fnord ◴[] No.10458720[source]
goto is just a mnemonic for jmp. It's the primitive from which all higher level control flow is ultimately derived. It isn't harmful, and it's used a lot even in C.
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1. duskwuff ◴[] No.10458822[source]
You're missing the reference - Dijkstra wrote a famous letter on GOTO in 1968 which was published as "Go To Statement Considered Harmful":

https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd02xx/EWD215.PDF

In context, it was a piece advocating against the use of GOTO to the exclusion of all other control structures (e.g, 'for' or 'while' loops, etc).

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2. vezzy-fnord ◴[] No.10458914[source]
I appreciate you thinking I'm a buffoon who was born yesterday and hasn't heard of EWD215, but it appears your reading comprehension is, to be charitable, iffy.

wyager's statement, involving PHP (for which there is not a famous "considered harmful" essay to the best of my knowledge, though there is "A Fractal of Bad Design") and goto statements, was a rather clear implication that both constructs are innately harmful in an attempt to counter n0us' assertion that influential/popular technologies imply a high quality. There was nothing said about using goto statements in presence of structured programming, but merely goto as an intrinsic badness. This is a common belief cargo culted by a many naive commentators and XKCD readers who do not realize that all control flow is derived from goto, and moreover that even in some languages with structured control flow it is still useful, e.g. for resource cleanup and breaking out of nested loops.

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3. garrettgrimsley ◴[] No.10458994[source]
>Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face-to-face conversation. Avoid gratuitous negativity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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4. vezzy-fnord ◴[] No.10459051{3}[source]
My statement was neither something I wouldn't say face-to-face, nor gratuitously negative.
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5. hyperpape ◴[] No.10459406[source]
Isn't that more aptly stated as "implemented with" not "derived from"?
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6. vezzy-fnord ◴[] No.10459469{3}[source]
Assuming a von Neumann or modified Harvard architecture where execution advances from an incremented program counter, I'd say derived from, though it may be that the former is more appropriate. It is certainly not universal, I do not make that claim.
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7. hderms ◴[] No.10459516{4}[source]
It comes off as unpalatable, to say the least. You were assuming malice in the other poster and then went on a minor tirade without sufficient prompting.
8. hyperpape ◴[] No.10459562{4}[source]
The program counter doesn't typically appear in the programming languages that have (or don't have) goto. You're talking about implementation, but I think people typically criticize goto in terms of semantics (iirc, I can include Djikstra in that camp, but I never made a super-careful study of that paper).
9. asveikau ◴[] No.10462951{3}[source]
The comment being replied to was also rather uncivil by a certain definition, assuming the commenter was unfamiliar with what is by now very cliched literature and explaining it in a somewhat condescending tone, as if to a child, when in truth there was a very substantive point being made.