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1173 points davikr | 77 comments | 12 Nov 25 17:59 UTC | HN request time: 0.626s | source | bottom
1. teroshan ◴[12 Nov 25 18:10 UTC] No.45903562[source]▶
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamframe [1]

> Steam Frame is a PC, and runs SteamOS powered by a Snapdragon® 8 Series Processor. With 16GB of RAM, Steam Frame supports stand-alone play on a growing number of both VR and non-VR games without needing to stream from your PC.

So Steam + Proton works on aarch64? Is this something already available/supported, or is this an announcement?

[1] Steam Frame, which is the VR Headset releasing alongside the Steam Machine. Dedicated discussion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903325

replies(7): >>45903594 #>>45903610 #>>45903782 #>>45904498 #>>45904680 #>>45904721 #>>45905519 #
2. sylens ◴[12 Nov 25 18:12 UTC] No.45903594[source]▶
I think this is a form of an announcement but without many details. I'm curious to see how well it works
3. jsheard ◴[12 Nov 25 18:13 UTC] No.45903610[source]▶
Valve has been quietly working on integrating the FEX x86 emulator into Proton for a while, and it's official now.

https://www.tomshardware.com/peripherals/gaming-headsets/han...

replies(5): >>45903811 #>>45904766 #>>45904871 #>>45905754 #>>45907378 #
4. jasonjmcghee ◴[12 Nov 25 18:23 UTC] No.45903782[source]▶
Wow this looks great. Foveated streaming, great resolution, wireless, 144hz, looks much more comfortable... As much as I want this, I feel like it'll end up being a really cool thing that just sits on the shelf.

Edit: foveated streaming, not rendering

replies(6): >>45904066 #>>45904183 #>>45904966 #>>45905084 #>>45905106 #>>45906210 #
5. teroshan ◴[12 Nov 25 18:24 UTC] No.45903811[source]▶
Valve deciding to support Arm-based gaming is HUGE news
6. erxam ◴[12 Nov 25 18:40 UTC] No.45904066[source]▶
Maybe they've cracked the code with the dongle? Usually, you either have to invest both time and money into setting up the perfect streaming network, deal with annoying cables or resign yourself to inferior on-device game versions. The ergonomics matter more than you'd think.

But if it's a very easy plug-n-play type deal to run SteamVR games (and on Linux!), that's a huge ergonomic improvement. Don't have to think too much about whether everything is running correctly or what-have-you.

replies(1): >>45906475 #
7. hnuser123456 ◴[12 Nov 25 18:47 UTC] No.45904183[source]▶
I recommend preparing a drink or two and loading up VRchat and joining one of the rave club groups. Check out the metaverse zuck wishes he ran.
replies(3): >>45904642 #>>45905341 #>>45906379 #
8. delusional ◴[12 Nov 25 19:02 UTC] No.45904498[source]▶
I'm more confused that it's running SteamOS which is supposedly Arch based, but arch doesn't officially support ARM. You have to use the ArchLinuxARM distro for that, which is less maintained. They got to be doing something off label for that.
replies(3): >>45904639 #>>45904856 #>>45905481 #
9. uncletaco ◴[12 Nov 25 19:09 UTC] No.45904639[source]▶
Even if they are, Valve has a long track record of contributing back to open source projects.
replies(1): >>45904787 #
10. grepex ◴[12 Nov 25 19:10 UTC] No.45904642{3}[source]▶
I could see Steam creating the OASIS
replies(1): >>45906326 #
11. stetrain ◴[12 Nov 25 19:11 UTC] No.45904680[source]▶
Just to clarify that's for the Steam Frame VR Headset. The Steam Machine PC uses an AMD Zen 4 x86 CPU.
replies(1): >>45905871 #
12. jadbox ◴[12 Nov 25 19:14 UTC] No.45904721[source]▶
When's the preorders happening?
13. Yokolos ◴[12 Nov 25 19:16 UTC] No.45904766[source]▶
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/1493

This is fun, just found this issue from 2018 which was closed with this comment:

> Hello @setsunati, this is not a realistic objective for Proton. As @rkfg, mentions wine for ARM does not magically make x86 based games work on ARM cpus.

> Even if Steam were brought to ARM, and an x86 emulation layer was run underneath wine, the amount of games that could run fast and without hitting video driver quirks is small enough not to entertain this idea any time in the near future.

It's mentioned in this issue https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/8136 which was closed Oct 2024 with this comment by kisak-valve:

> Hello @Theleafir1, similar to #1493, this is not a realistic objective for Proton any time in the near future.

replies(1): >>45905082 #
14. 0x1ch ◴[12 Nov 25 19:17 UTC] No.45904787{3}[source]▶
Proton was a community led effort years back. The guy who started that is now an employee at Valve (IIRC) working on Proton, but also getting paid :)
15. 0x457 ◴[12 Nov 25 19:20 UTC] No.45904856[source]▶
> arch doesn't officially support ARM

Doesn't really mean much to Valve as SteamOS vendor:

- linux kernel supports aarch64 just fine

- user space supports aarach64 just as fine

- Valve provides runtime for games (be it via proton or native linux), so providing aarch64 builds is up to them anyway

The main point of ArchLinuxARM is providing compatible binaries, which isn't something hard to do in-house.

16. radialstub ◴[12 Nov 25 19:21 UTC] No.45904871[source]▶
I believe this work is a continuation of the work the asahi linux people did to get games working on M-series macs. It seems Alyssa Rosenzweig works at valve as a contractor. Super cool work. Some seriously talented folks.
replies(1): >>45905090 #
17. jauntywundrkind ◴[12 Nov 25 19:26 UTC] No.45904966[source]▶
I don't think there is foveated rendering. There is foveated encoding, when game streaming.

Looks like a very competent headset indeed though! Nice combo of fast streaming that can prioritize well with foveated encoding, and hopefully a pretty nice malleable capable standalone headset too.

replies(1): >>45905197 #
18. baq ◴[12 Nov 25 19:32 UTC] No.45905082{3}[source]▶
Finally some clarification on what valve time actually is.
replies(1): >>45906146 #
19. pimeys ◴[12 Nov 25 19:32 UTC] No.45905084[source]▶
My NVIDIA Shield is getting old and slow. I can see this as a good replacement, because it supports HDMI CEC, so you can control it with your remote control.

Install Plex, JellyFin, FreeTube et.al. to it and you have a nice open source TV box.

You also get 4k gaming from Steam, GOG, Epic etc. and you get emulators. I've been wanting to build a computer like this, but CEC is hard to find and the adapters that exist don't support full 4k resolution.

replies(1): >>45906074 #
20. LeonM ◴[12 Nov 25 19:32 UTC] No.45905090{3}[source]▶
Alyssa works for Intel now, so I doubt she'll be doing much contract work for Valve anymore...
replies(1): >>45905311 #
21. baq ◴[12 Nov 25 19:33 UTC] No.45905106[source]▶
I lowkey hope it's good enough for coding. Really wanted to try out the xreal glasses, but multiple people said they aren't crisp enough for text.
replies(3): >>45905898 #>>45907571 #>>45907825 #
22. jasonjmcghee ◴[12 Nov 25 19:38 UTC] No.45905197{3}[source]▶
Yes - thank you, fixed
23. embedding-shape ◴[12 Nov 25 19:44 UTC] No.45905311{4}[source]▶
What a jump, I'd be curious to hear first why anyone would prefer Intel above pretty much anything else, but also secondly how the actual experience difference between the two after working at both, must be a very strong contrast between them.
replies(5): >>45905457 #>>45906010 #>>45906106 #>>45906730 #>>45907176 #
24. embedding-shape ◴[12 Nov 25 19:46 UTC] No.45905341{3}[source]▶
I tried VRChat once or twice but never seemed to have found any fun places/groups to hang out that weren't obsessing about anime/manga most of the time. Anyone here on HN have better suggestions of worlds/groups or where to even look?
replies(1): >>45905518 #
25. KerrAvon ◴[12 Nov 25 19:53 UTC] No.45905457{5}[source]▶
usually a combination of money/benefits/locale is the answer to this question
26. whatevaa ◴[12 Nov 25 19:55 UTC] No.45905481[source]▶
Arch doesn't support ARM at all. Arm is somebody else hobby project.
replies(3): >>45905552 #>>45905930 #>>45907173 #
27. hnuser123456 ◴[12 Nov 25 19:57 UTC] No.45905518{4}[source]▶
There are groups that are more focused on music (DnB, dubstep, other festival-friendly genres), focused on dancing, focused on drinking games, focused on world-hopping, etc. I'm into the underground rave vibe, so for that there's VRC Party Hub, which is a guy who runs a discord who befriends as many clubs as he can find in that scene, and imports their schedules/announcements channels into a nightly report of all known events.

https://x.com/VRChatPartyHub

28. nialv7 ◴[12 Nov 25 19:57 UTC] No.45905519[source]▶
> So Steam + Proton works on aarch64?

CodeWeavers just announced[0] CrossOver on ARM a couple of days ago, so yes.

[0]: https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/mjohnson/2025/11/6/twist-ou...

replies(1): >>45908257 #
29. tiberious726 ◴[12 Nov 25 19:59 UTC] No.45905552{3}[source]▶
You mean valve's?
30. pdpi ◴[12 Nov 25 20:09 UTC] No.45905754[source]▶
Have to wonder if there is a world where Proton comes to macOS.
replies(3): >>45906101 #>>45906168 #>>45908231 #
31. SpaceNoodled ◴[12 Nov 25 20:16 UTC] No.45905871[source]▶
The headset isn't natively running games, right?
replies(2): >>45905925 #>>45906077 #
32. nickstinemates ◴[12 Nov 25 20:18 UTC] No.45905898{3}[source]▶
I can't wait until the tech reaches this stage. Infinite desktop space, surrounded by text and terminals. It will be so hard to unplug.
replies(1): >>45908346 #
33. smileybarry ◴[12 Nov 25 20:20 UTC] No.45905925{3}[source]▶
It can, but it'll be a small subset of stuff. You'll probably be able to just hit install + play on most things, but it'll have a "Steam Frame Verified" program like the Steam Deck's.
34. wafflemaker ◴[12 Nov 25 20:20 UTC] No.45905930{3}[source]▶
isn't Steam Deck arm based?
replies(2): >>45906038 #>>45906126 #
35. bigyabai ◴[12 Nov 25 20:24 UTC] No.45906010{5}[source]▶
Would it shock you to hear that many/most engineers don't pick an employer based on brand reputation?
36. delusional ◴[12 Nov 25 20:26 UTC] No.45906038{4}[source]▶
No. It's an AMD x64 CPU married to an onboard GPU.
37. matthewrobertso ◴[12 Nov 25 20:27 UTC] No.45906074{3}[source]▶
The specs for this steam machine say HDMI 2.0, in the past I used a pulse8 HDMI CEC USB dongle with a computer which was also HDMI 2.0 iirc. I was using a 1080p projector with it but their website claims 4k support: https://www.pulse-eight.com/p/104/usb-hdmi-cec-adapter

I recently replaced a shield with an Ugoos Am6b+ running coreELEC, which works okay and supports some stuff the shield doesn't but I miss being able to run some android apps easily. I wonder if the new steam machine will support DV.

38. stetrain ◴[12 Nov 25 20:28 UTC] No.45906077{3}[source]▶
Yes, in the same way that a Quest 3 can run BeatSaber and other similar calibre games.

For more demanding games it's designed to stream from a PC.

39. jsheard ◴[12 Nov 25 20:29 UTC] No.45906101{3}[source]▶
Pretty unlikely as long as Apple refuses to support Vulkan. Even if they did, the whole Proton project is about Valve controlling their own destiny rather than being chained to someone else's platform, and Apple is just another Microsoft in that regard.
replies(4): >>45906195 #>>45906255 #>>45906981 #>>45907713 #
40. ikety ◴[12 Nov 25 20:29 UTC] No.45906106{5}[source]▶
I'm sure most would stay at valve if they could. The just do so much contract work, and I'm sure a stable job at intel is better pay, benefits and stability.
41. milutinovici ◴[12 Nov 25 20:30 UTC] No.45906126{4}[source]▶
No, it's AMD based
42. mosselman ◴[12 Nov 25 20:31 UTC] No.45906146{4}[source]▶
What do you mean? Could you share your insight?
replies(3): >>45906227 #>>45906411 #>>45906429 #
43. GeekyBear ◴[12 Nov 25 20:32 UTC] No.45906168{3}[source]▶
Proton is just a fork of Wine that also translates from Microsoft's DirectX graphics API to the native graphics API of Linux (Vulcan) so you can run Windows games on Linux.

The new thing Proton is adding is translation from x86 to ARM.

Macs already have Wine, an x86 to ARM translation layer (Rosetta), and an Apple provided translation layer from Microsoft's DirectX to the Mac's native Metal graphics API (D3DMetal) which is integrated into upstream Wine.

44. pdpi ◴[12 Nov 25 20:34 UTC] No.45906195{4}[source]▶
True, forgot about that. That said, Apple does have D3DMetal. A man can dream that they eventually opensource that.
45. Sohcahtoa82 ◴[12 Nov 25 20:34 UTC] No.45906210[source]▶
It looks good until I reached one bit:

> Passthrough - Monochrome passthrough via outward facing cameras

This is an outright bone-headed move that I can't believe Valve is making. Only having monochrome cameras means augmented reality is basically a non-starter.

AR has a lot of potential. I literally bought a Meta Quest 3 just for PianoVision [0] when I already had a Valve Index. I would love to see some sort of AR-based game you could play outdoors. But with only monochrome vision, that's gonna be awful.

[0] https://youtu.be/apwZTV-Rg0s

replies(1): >>45907337 #
46. GeekyBear ◴[12 Nov 25 20:36 UTC] No.45906255{4}[source]▶
> Pretty unlikely as long as Apple refuses to support Vulkan.

You would only translate into Vulcan when running on an OS that uses Vulcan as the native graphics API.

On a Mac, Wine translates directly into Metal.

replies(1): >>45906404 #
47. darkwater ◴[12 Nov 25 20:41 UTC] No.45906326{4}[source]▶
Any idea if Gabe likes Rush?
48. qwm ◴[12 Nov 25 20:44 UTC] No.45906379{3}[source]▶
VRChat is one of the most socially dysfunctional online platforms I've ever used
49. jsheard ◴[12 Nov 25 20:46 UTC] No.45906404{5}[source]▶
Valve could implement a separate Metal backend for Proton, what I'm saying is they probably wouldn't want to spend their resources on that.
replies(2): >>45906639 #>>45907396 #
50. yvdriess ◴[12 Nov 25 20:46 UTC] No.45906411{5}[source]▶
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
51. dmonitor ◴[12 Nov 25 20:48 UTC] No.45906429{5}[source]▶
it's running joke that Valve will announce something as "coming soon" only to release months or years later

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time

replies(1): >>45907411 #
52. mavamaarten ◴[12 Nov 25 20:51 UTC] No.45906475{3}[source]▶
If it's just plug and play and works well, it'd be brilliant. I have experimented a lot with a couple or wifi dongles I had lying around and setting up a hotspot, but honestly I could never get it to work well.

Streaming VR content is just so sensitive. I have a good cabled network but even a simple switch introduced noticeable lag spikes. In the end I have a separate router that I just connect straight to my PC, and then I share my wifi connection through my PC to that network. A whole silly setup just to minimize latency and packet loss. If that could be replaced with a simple USB dongle I'd be amazed.

53. samtheprogram ◴[12 Nov 25 21:03 UTC] No.45906639{6}[source]▶
That's because D3DMetal already exists. Games run like they did on Proton ~4-5 years ago, some games better.

I mostly no longer boot my Linux machine anymore to play games.

The anticheat story is probably not as good but I don't play any AAA games, so I wouldn't know.

replies(3): >>45906808 #>>45906862 #>>45906971 #
54. whizzter ◴[12 Nov 25 21:09 UTC] No.45906730{5}[source]▶
Maybe she was given a huge signing bonus to avoid her working on making X86 irrelevant? Combined with perhaps some interesting project to work on for real.
55. ◴[12 Nov 25 21:14 UTC] No.45906808{7}[source]▶
56. jsheard ◴[12 Nov 25 21:18 UTC] No.45906862{7}[source]▶
That's great as long as it works, but D3DMetal is a proprietary, closed-source Apple library so you can and probably will get rug-pulled by Apple neglecting or deprecating it as their priorities change. They've only ever positioned it as an "evaluation environment" for developers to estimate how their game will run before going ahead with a native Mac port, not as something for end-users to play Windows games with, so if developers don't bite then they'll have no reason to keep working on it.
replies(1): >>45907129 #
57. GeekyBear ◴[12 Nov 25 21:26 UTC] No.45906971{7}[source]▶
> Games run like they did on Proton ~4-5 years ago, some games better.

Proton previously only worked on x86, so there was not the additional overhead of x86 to ARM translation.

Proton on ARM will have the same performance constraints as Wine on ARM Macs.

58. miohtama ◴[12 Nov 25 21:27 UTC] No.45906981{4}[source]▶
Wouldn't it be Apple's benefit to get more gaming on MacOS? Their goals might align with Steam.

Apple's native gaming story has been similar failure as their AI and Siri ventures. Time to fix it.

replies(1): >>45907436 #
59. GeekyBear ◴[12 Nov 25 21:39 UTC] No.45907129{8}[source]▶
Proton is a downstream fork of Wine, and upstream Wine already directly supports playing Windows games on Mac using D3DMetal.

You don't need Proton's Wine fork when you can just use Wine.

replies(2): >>45908107 #>>45908175 #
60. gavinsyancey ◴[12 Nov 25 21:42 UTC] No.45907173{3}[source]▶
Arch has been working with Valve on various build system improvements for some time [0], which as I understand it are targeted at making it more feasible for them to eventually support more architectures [1]. This doesn't release for several months; I wonder if there'll be an official Arch Linux ARM by then?

[0]: https://lists.archlinux.org/archives/list/arch-dev-public@li...

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41696041

61. neilv ◴[12 Nov 25 21:43 UTC] No.45907176{5}[source]▶
If I were Intel, this sounds like a great person to give an R&D skunkworks dream job.

Potential lottery ticket win, they are available for consulting internally anywhere that can add value, and they're not working for anyone else.

62. starkparker ◴[12 Nov 25 21:56 UTC] No.45907337{3}[source]▶
The videos I've seen about the Frame all call out the front expansion port, which "Valve says ... offers a dual 2.5Gbps MIPI camera interface and also supports a one-lane Gen 4 PCIe data port for other peripherals."[1]

That's plenty to support color passthrough as a physical addon, which in turn makes me think that, like with the OLED Deck, we'll see a Frame with built-in color-passthrough later as a different premium SKU when/if they justify it.

1: https://www.uploadvr.com/valve-steam-frame-official-announce...

63. derefr ◴[12 Nov 25 21:58 UTC] No.45907378[source]▶
There was also a parallel effort to this end, targeting Android rather than plain Linux, resulting in an app called https://winlator.org/ — which also works quite well at this point. (See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP0yUqcyY18)
replies(1): >>45907610 #
64. derefr ◴[12 Nov 25 21:59 UTC] No.45907396{6}[source]▶
Couldn't Apple spend their resources on that? Proton is open-source, and Apple's the one with the incentive to have more "prestige" AAA game devs to parade around during keynotes.
replies(2): >>45907459 #>>45907976 #
65. AlienRobot ◴[12 Nov 25 22:01 UTC] No.45907411{6}[source]▶
This kind of thing is what makes me trust Valve.
66. WhyNotHugo ◴[12 Nov 25 22:03 UTC] No.45907436{5}[source]▶
Valve seems to break free form depending on someone else’s walled garden.

Apple seeks to builds its own walled garden.

Their interests do not align. Apple doesn’t want portable software on their platform, they want exclusive software.

67. jsheard ◴[12 Nov 25 22:05 UTC] No.45907459{7}[source]▶
Apple could but they're not interested in non-native games, they want native ports or nothing. As I discussed a few posts over, Apple went to the trouble of developing a DirectX compatibility layer, but then told game developers they're not allowed to use it for anything besides evaluating whether their game would run well enough on Mac hardware. If they go ahead with a port then Apple still expects them to do it all the hard way.

It's textbook "perfect is the enemy of good" because yeah, compatibility layers have overhead, native is better, but if you insist on native everything but can't get devs on board then you just end up with no games.

68. cultofmetatron ◴[12 Nov 25 22:14 UTC] No.45907571{3}[source]▶
resolution is in the 2000x2000 range so don't count on it.
69. pippy360 ◴[12 Nov 25 22:17 UTC] No.45907610{3}[source]▶
That was a very higher quality YT video. It's clearly written by someone who knows when they're talking about even though it's mostly non-technical
70. easyThrowaway ◴[12 Nov 25 22:25 UTC] No.45907713{4}[source]▶
I mean, theoretically they could backport the D3DMetal wine driver from the Game Porting Toolkit. Also I remember there was some early preliminary work done on stock wine a few years ago.

Honestly right now there is so much overlapping between all the wine "flavors" and forks available (Stock wine, Crossover, Proton/Proton-GE/Wine-GE, Game Porting Toolkit, winevdm, probably a few more I'm forgetting right now) I'm not entirely sure how many features have been independently implemented already multiple times.

71. nulld3v ◴[12 Nov 25 22:34 UTC] No.45907825{3}[source]▶
There are already headsets with decent text fidelity, but IMO the problem is now on the host side. I tried to get an XR desktop env running (Stardust https://stardustxr.org/) on Linux but ran into graphical issues. The Windows ecosystem is much better though.
72. tick_tock_tick ◴[12 Nov 25 22:48 UTC] No.45907976{7}[source]▶
Apple could but Apple would rather die they allow something to work cross platform.
73. samtheprogram ◴[12 Nov 25 22:58 UTC] No.45908107{9}[source]▶
That doesn't change the fact that D3DMetal is closed-source. Wine just links to it.

There's also DXMT which is open-source, but doesn't support DX12.

74. pdpi ◴[12 Nov 25 23:06 UTC] No.45908175{9}[source]▶
Right now, the user experience with Crossover is that you have to manage the whole thing of installing Windows Steam in a Wine bottle, then installing games within that second Steam installation, then dealing with the fact that Steam doesn't seem to like having two instances running on the same computer (my native Steam loses connectivity every time I start the Crossover instance).

Wanting Proton on Mac isn't about that specific fork of Wine, it's shorthand for wanting the user experience that Valve gives you on Linux.

75. bsimpson ◴[12 Nov 25 23:12 UTC] No.45908231{3}[source]▶
I did catch that the streaming stick for the Valve Frame in the announcement video was plugged into a computer that looked an awful lot like a Mac.
76. sho_hn ◴[12 Nov 25 23:15 UTC] No.45908257[source]▶
Mainly check out the Valve-sponsored FEX project.
77. bitwize ◴[12 Nov 25 23:24 UTC] No.45908346{4}[source]▶
EMACS. EMACS EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK.