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760 points MindBreaker2605 | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.418s | source
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sebmellen ◴[] No.45897467[source]
Making LeCun report to Wang was the most boneheaded move imaginable. But… I suppose Zuckerberg knows what he wants, which is AI slopware and not truly groundbreaking foundation models.
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ACCount37 ◴[] No.45897970[source]
That was obviously him getting sidelined. And it's easy to see why.

LLMs get results. None of the Yann LeCun's pet projects do. He had ample time to prove that his approach is promising, and he didn't.

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camillomiller ◴[] No.45898122[source]
LLMs get results is quite the bold statement. If they get results, they should be getting adopted, and they should be making money. This is all built on hazy promises. If you had marketable results, you wouldn't have to hide 20+ billion dollars of debt financing into an obscure SPV. LLMs are the most baffling piece of tech. They are incredible, and yet marred by their non-deterministic hallucinatory nature, and bound to fail in adoption unless you convince everyone that they don't need precision and accuracy, but they can do their business at 75% quality, just with less human overhead. It's quite the thing to convince people of, and that's why it needs the spend it's needing. A lot of we-need-to-stay-in-the-loop CEOs and bigwigs got infatuated with the idea, and most probably they just had their companies get addicted to the tech equivalent of crack cocaine. A reckoning is coming.
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ACCount37 ◴[] No.45898220[source]
LLMs get results, yes. They are getting adopted, and they are making money.

Frontier models are all profitable. Inference is sold with a damn good margin, and the amounts of inference AI companies sell keeps rising. This necessitates putting more and more money into infrastructure. AI R&D is extremely expensive too, and this necessitates even more spending.

A mistake I see people make over and over again is keeping track of the spending but overlooking the revenue altogether. Which sure is weird: you don't get from $0B in revenue to $12B in revenue in a few years by not having a product anyone wants to buy.

And I find all the talk of "non-deterministic hallucinatory nature" to be overrated. Because humans suffer from all of that too, just less severely. On top of a number of other issues current AIs don't suffer from.

Nonetheless, we use human labor for things. All AI has to do is provide a "good enough" alternative, and it often does.

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ripe ◴[] No.45899125[source]
> Frontier models are all profitable.

This is an extraordinary claim and needs extraordinary proof.

LLMs are raising lots of investor money, but that's a completely different thing from being profitable.

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ACCount37 ◴[] No.45899369[source]
You don't even need insider info - it lines up with external estimates.

We have estimates that range from 30% to 70% gross margin on API LLM inference prices at major labs, 50% middle road. 10% to 80% gross margin on user-facing subscription services, error bars inflated massively. We also have many reports that inference compute has come to outmatch training run compute for frontier models by a factor of x10 or more over the lifetime of a model.

The only source of uncertainty is: how much inference do the free tier users consume? Which is something that the AI companies themselves control: they are in charge of which models they make available to the free users, and what the exact usage caps for free users are.

Adding that up? Frontier models are profitable.

This goes against the popular opinion, which is where the disbelief is coming from.

Note that I'm talking LLMs rather than things like image or video generation models, which may have vastly different economics.

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1. hitarpetar ◴[] No.45901400[source]
what about training?
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2. ACCount37 ◴[] No.45902145[source]
I literally mentioned that:

> We also have many reports that inference compute has come to outmatch training run compute for frontier models by a factor of x10 or more over the lifetime of a model.