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220 points zdw | 26 comments | | HN request time: 0.442s | source | bottom
1. TheAceOfHearts ◴[] No.45897298[source]
I haven't tried a bluetooth device in years, is pairing still godawful? I wish they would give you the option to pair through USB. Just plug in the host and peripheral and press the pair button, and it should automatically negotiate pairing. I don't care if it requires the hassle of occasionally having to plug something in to pair the two devices as long as it works 100% reliably.
replies(9): >>45897327 #>>45897352 #>>45897355 #>>45897363 #>>45897451 #>>45897587 #>>45897739 #>>45897968 #>>45900386 #
2. MilanTodorovic ◴[] No.45897327[source]
Pairing mostly sucks with low quality adapters which have all sorts of timing issues. Some decent ones are perfectly fine.
replies(1): >>45903504 #
3. bschwindHN ◴[] No.45897352[source]
The nintendo switch pro controller is nice for this - plug it in via USB and it automatically pairs to the console you plugged it into.
replies(3): >>45897507 #>>45897776 #>>45903721 #
4. eptcyka ◴[] No.45897355[source]
That's how game controllers can be paired - just plug them in.
replies(1): >>45900532 #
5. SkyPuncher ◴[] No.45897363[source]
Most devices have realized pairing doesn’t need to be so hard.

Most stuff now will happily access the first thing that connects to it while in pairing mode. I have many devices that a switch my headphone pairing between with ease.

replies(1): >>45897561 #
6. Elfener ◴[] No.45897451[source]
The worst bluetooth pairing experience is with devices featuring "quick pair" "fast pair" and similar.

The best pairing experience is with devices that have a pair button or let you hold down the power button to enter pairing mode. Although I've now ended up with headphones (Creative Zen Hybrid (Gen 2)) that have this, but also decide to just unexpectedly enter pairing mode when you disconnect all devices from it...

7. Gigachad ◴[] No.45897507[source]
Apple keyboard, mouse, and trackpad work like this too. I’m not sure how you are meant to pair them on non Apple hardware though.
replies(1): >>45900533 #
8. rusk ◴[] No.45897561[source]
I love when I’m streaming to the stereo in the living room and my phone decides that oh no I’d prefer to listen to that on the headphones in my pocket.
9. Findecanor ◴[] No.45897587[source]
AFAIK, there isn't any official USB protocol for this, and I think there really should be. Pairing has to be out-of-band to be properly secure against MITM attacks during pairing, and using USB would be such a simple way to achieve that.

Apple has a proprietary USB protocol for pairing its own wireless keyboards, trackpad and mouse, and Microsoft and Sony have proprietary protocols for their respective gamepads.

replies(1): >>45901040 #
10. user_7832 ◴[] No.45897739[source]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't NFC at one point considered the solution for such out of band pairing? I think NFC headphones are still available for sale.
replies(3): >>45897865 #>>45897996 #>>45898414 #
11. chithanh ◴[] No.45897776[source]
Sony supports pairing Bluetooth devices via USB since PS3 and Apple supports this since wireless peripherals with Lightning port.

However the protocols to do that are all proprietary and mutually incompatible. At least the PS3 protocol has been sufficiently reverse engineered so you can plug a DualShock 3 controller into a Steam Deck and have it just work wirelessly afterwards.

12. xattt ◴[] No.45897865[source]
NFC headphones went out of fashion after users’ necks got tired quickly during playback from having to keep their heads near the source device.

/s

13. rickdeckard ◴[] No.45897968[source]
It's not that bad really, I haven't had a bad Bluetooth Pairing experience in years now, and I keep switching some devices ALOT (phones, headphones, keyboards, mice)

> I wish they would give you the option to pair through USB. Just plug in the host and peripheral and press the pair button, and it should automatically negotiate pairing.

This is called "Out of band" (OOB) pairing and supported since Bluetooth 4 iirc, it's a method which allows key exchange using a different bearer than Bluetooth.

It's implemented quite famously on the Sony Playstation 3 and 4, where BT-pairing is done by connecting via USB and pressing the "Playstation" button.

On other Bluetooth-devices it's mostly not implemented because apart from the limited support for OOB pairing over USB on the host-device, it would require the peripherial device to also have a USB data-interface in control of the Bluetooth chipset.

So more complexity and cost, to solve a problem which barely exists anymore.

replies(2): >>45902673 #>>45905477 #
14. rickdeckard ◴[] No.45897996[source]
NFC was one possible solution for the "Out-of-Band" pairing defined in the Bluetooth spec.

The spec. allowed to exchange encryption keys with a different method than Bluetooth, Sony is using it on the Playstation to perform BT-pairing via USB.

Commercially, NFC was mostly used to initiate pairing, by having a NFC Tag on the accessory which stored the Bluetooth address, and a device scanning the tag would initiate pairing with the device directly.

The pairing itself is technically still done over Bluetooth, which is nowadays mostly a matter of confirming the operation...

15. miki123211 ◴[] No.45898414[source]
Yes, I had an NFC-based speaker once, and that worked wonderfully.

You'd go up to the speaker (which you had to do anyway to turn it on), and you'd touch the phone to the NFC part. That would turn it on and pair it with this specific phone. The whole thing took less than a second.

It was great for sharing the speaker among family members, when different people used it at different times, each with their own phone.

This was in ~2015, I had a Galaxy S4 at the time, no idea whether this works with iOS or modern Android.

16. faxmeyourcode ◴[] No.45900386[source]
Yes, it's still a terrible UX. Anybody claiming otherwise is using Apple only, which still has trouble (albeit a bit less than mixed ecosystems), or stockholm syndrome.
17. jeffbee ◴[] No.45900532[source]
It is also how the Apple keyboards and pointing devices are paired.
18. ezfe ◴[] No.45900533{3}[source]
They enter pairing mode after being turned on
replies(1): >>45901933 #
19. jansper39 ◴[] No.45901040[source]
I don't think Xbox uses Bluetooth for their gamepads. It's some proprietary protocol over 2.4Ghz as far as I'm aware.
replies(1): >>45902057 #
20. jasomill ◴[] No.45901933{4}[source]
And you can repair an already-paired device by either holding down the power button for a few seconds or flipping the power switch on and off a few times, depending on the model.

My biggest annoyance with Apple devices is in software, that AFAIK there's no way to prevent macOS from pairing to any Apple Bluetooth device connected via USB, even if it's already paired with another device and you only intend to use it via USB.

21. jasomill ◴[] No.45902057{3}[source]
Recent Xbox controllers support both Bluetooth and a proprietary protocol; Microsoft sells an optional dongle to use the latter on PC.

AFAIK, PlayStation wireless controllers are Bluetooth-only, but the DualSense (PS5) controllers use some proprietary extension not supported on Windows for haptic feedback over wireless that's sent via standard audio protocols over USB.

22. jauntywundrkind ◴[] No.45902673[source]
I really want BT pairing over NFC , which my Lenovo ThinkPad II keyboard supports. On Linux. I believe a bunch of my headsets may support this too?

I think maybe there's like on one or two people who have gotten neard daemon doing Bluetooth OOB with Bluez, but it's very obscured in results or their reports have bit rotted off the net.

replies(1): >>45902982 #
23. rickdeckard ◴[] No.45902982{3}[source]
I don't know your keyboard (and Google didn't help that much), but I guess it simply has a NFC Tag which shares the BT ID over NFC for a device to initiate pairing directly with this ID.

You can try an Android App like NXP TagInfo to read the contents of that Tag and show you what's inside of it, my expectation is that it's just a basic NFC Tag...

24. BuildTheRobots ◴[] No.45903504[source]
I wonder how much of it is low quality adapters vs poor drivers. Whatever Bluetooth module they used in my £20 Chinesium car stereo connects quicker and works with less niggles than any other device I've tested in the last 20 years.
25. gumby271 ◴[] No.45903721[source]
I think the Joycons do this too. Snap them in once, then they'll work wirelessly after that.
26. jcelerier ◴[] No.45905477[source]
I have some anker headphones which won't stay paired no matter what I do