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589 points gmays | 16 comments | | HN request time: 1.537s | source | bottom
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earless1 ◴[] No.45772465[source]
So biological garbage collection pauses then? skip sleep, and the brain tries to run gc cycles during runtime. Causing attention and performance latency spikes. Evolution wrote the original JVM.
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layer8 ◴[] No.45772560[source]
Luckily it doesn’t clear all unreferenced memory, though.
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1. ghurtado ◴[] No.45773625[source]
I realize you're making a joke, but there is no such thing as "unreferenced memories", as in, something that is no longer in use and has been removed from the brain.

Every memory your brain has ever produced is still there, even if most are beyond conscious access. Memories quite literally become a permanent part of you.

A lot of people mistakenly think of human memory as a sort of hard drive with limited capacity, with files being deleted to make room for new ones. It's very much not like that.

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2. pdonis ◴[] No.45773664[source]
If you are implying that human memory has infinite capacity, that's not possible. The human brain is a finite, physical thing. It can't store an infinite amount of data.

If you just mean that human memory has a finite capacity that's much larger than anyone has come close to reaching by storing the memories of a normal human lifetime, that might make sense.

Do you have any references for your statements about memory? I'm not familiar with whatever science there is in this area.

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3. mym1990 ◴[] No.45773783[source]
Knowing almost nothing about memory and the brain, I don't know if I agree with "Every memory your brain has ever produced is still there".

Memories seem to be constructed by a group of neurons together, and it seems clear that neurodegeneration is a thing, whether by trauma or due to aging. When pathways degenerate, maybe you have a partial memory that you brain can help fill the gaps with(and often incorrectly), but that does not make it the original memory.

4. ghurtado ◴[] No.45773815[source]
I didn't mean either of the things that you are wondering whether I meant, so i can't give you evidence of those things you made up yourself.

If you have questions about my comment, I'm happy to try to explain myself better

"I didn't understand you at all, so you must have meant either A or B" is not the way to reach an understanding

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5. vanviegen ◴[] No.45773860[source]
Bullocks. Memories fade. Or do you really believe that 'subconsciously' I still know what I had for dinner today exactly 30 years ago?

The way I understand it, it's just that, unlike on disk, the deletion process is not binary. Weak connections that are not revisited regularly gradually become weaker, until they're undistinguishable from noise (false memories).

6. vanviegen ◴[] No.45773886{3}[source]
Your words: "Every memory your brain has ever produced is still there [..]"

How would that not imply infinite storage?

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7. ◴[] No.45773939{4}[source]
8. lux_sprwhk ◴[] No.45773941[source]
I had this experience at Big Bend State park that makes me think they are. I didn't bring enough water and camped in the primitive area. At night, I was dehydrated pretty bad. When I finally got a little sleep (it was tough to say the least), I had this vivid dream where I put a pebble in my mouth and started sucking on it to make saliva. Then I woke up for real, and I knew it because there was a lot of wind IRL, that wasn't in the dream. So I took out a coin from my back, put it in my mouth to make saliva, and got a little bit of relief. Enough for a couple hours until it was dawn, and had enough light to hike down to the restroom area.

I don't know where I got this trick. Likely some survival show or some novel. But I don't have any background in survival, otherwise, I would have brought a lot more water.

So my brain knew there was a memory that could help and made up a dream about it is my theory.

9. standardly ◴[] No.45774224[source]
> The human brain is a finite, physical thing. It can't store an infinite amount of data.

True, but it doesn't really detract from his statement because do we really know what that upper bound even is? I don't think we come close to the theoretical storage limit... So saying "every memory you have is permanently stored" is effectively true, at least true enough for a thought experiment like this. Perhaps when people live to be 200 years old and we know more about the brain we can test this, though.

I used to be weary of learning new, complex things, thinking I'd "lose" old knowledge XD

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10. pdonis ◴[] No.45774322{3}[source]
> i can't give you evidence of those things you made up yourself.

I didn't ask for that. I asked if you have references for what you said. Even if I misunderstood you, that shouldn't be a reason for you not to give references for your statements, if you have them.

If you don't have any references to back up your statements, then I'm not sure what you're basing them on.

11. dragonwriter ◴[] No.45774419{4}[source]
It wouldn't imply infinite storage because human life is not infinite in time and memories do not accumulate at an infinite rate in storage consumed per unit time, so the total storage over a human lifespan is finite, so the claim can be true with finite storage.

It is almost certainly false, but it doesn't require infinite storage to be true.

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12. jjk166 ◴[] No.45775057[source]
The claim that everything is there does not imply infinite, or even large capacity.

Consider an exponentially weighted moving average - you can just keep putting more data in forever and the memory requirement is constant.

The brain stores information as a weighted graph which basically acts as lossy compression. When you gain more information, graph weights are updated, essentially compressing what was already in there further. Eventually you get to a point where what you can recall is useless, which is what we would consider forgotten, and eventually the contribution of a single datapoint becomes insignificant, but it never reaches zero.

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13. pdonis ◴[] No.45775615{3}[source]
> I don't think we come close to the theoretical storage limit

That was the point of the second part of my comment--which the person I was responding to said was not relevant to what he meant.

14. pdonis ◴[] No.45775625{5}[source]
> human life is not infinite in time and memories do not accumulate at an infinite rate in storage consumed per unit time

Which would put it into the category of the second part of my comment--which the person I was responding to said was not relevant to what they meant.

15. pdonis ◴[] No.45775647{3}[source]
> The claim that everything is there does not imply infinite, or even large capacity.

It implies enough capacity to store everything. But what you describe is not storing everything.

> lossy compression

Which means you're not storing all the information. You're not storing everything.

> When you gain more information, graph weights are updated, essentially compressing what was already in there further.

In other words, each time you store a new memory, you throw some old information away.

Which the person I was responding to said does not happen.

16. balex ◴[] No.45779822{3}[source]
And this description is based on what?