ICE and the Smartphone Panopticon

At the cost of misidentifying innocent citizens and deporting them? These surveillance technologies have way too many false positives.

Pray you never have to flee your country to escape violence or persecution. Most of these people are just desperate.

So why are American citizens getting detained?

Or even just detained or arrested.

They do without scanning your and my social media profiles. You download the CBP one app after showing up to the border and handing over your passport from your home country which they confiscate before letting you in. They also dont need to throw you in a cage or deport you too an African country you have no connection to either. These aren't deportations it's terrorism.

Do they just get to unilaterally trample over rights to do this? Any impediment should be removed at any cost?

Most of these apps are akin to filming police; protected speech in my book. I won't say anything bad about surveillance in the streets/online, but it's upsetting that they abuse their power to prevent monitoring and reporting their abuse of power

one would argue that an immigration system that is actively hostile towards people who follow the rules (downright arcane) results in this issue. even a fairly skilled h1b worker (say a doctor working in rural area) has no real pathway to citizenship, let alone a temporary farm labor... i am not condoning the illegal immigration, just pointing out the root cause. we wouldn't be in this situation if we had a true reformed immigration system.

How many doctors are flowing in on H-1Bs across the Darién gap?

What a deceptive thing to say. I don't doubt that you know very well that every US administration in the past 50 years agrees with what you said. The thing people don't like is goons dressed in military attire, and covering their faces zip-tying children, and US citizens, then disappearing them without trial or due process.

If they simply obtained warrants, arrested people, treated them with dignity, let them have a trial, and then deport them, then the only objection would be why $50B is being wasted on rounding up non-violent migrants, or why the business owners that hire them aren't in prison as well.

You can't claim that your goal is to enforce the law, and then find pesky little things like due process, and warrants inconvenient.

It isn't, breaking the law while trying to enforce the law is.

And people should have the technology to monitor this kind of overreach.

good question, certainly less than the number who attempt it.

The vast majority of illegal immigrants are overstaying visas.

Americans traditionally weren't this happy to give up hard won rights to privacy/freedoms for a little easier immigration enforcement. It is pretty shocking to see how ok the Infowars/Libertarian/small government types are with intrusive, biometric surveillance, and expanding a government agency in such a wasteful way it makes the TSA look meticulous.

i am not a lawyer, so please treat this as more of a question: my belief was that whether it’s ok to film in a public place is a matter of state law.

source?

This may be a common, valid political position, but it's not the style of participation we're wanting on HN. The guidelines make it clear that HN exists for curious conversation, and we're hoping for this to be a place where people can discuss difficult topics with sensitivity and nuance. In the very best-case scenario maybe we can work together to find new ideas for addressing age-old societal challenges like this. In this form, such an argument is repetitive flamebait and makes HN seem more like a political rally than a constructive discussion. Please make an effort to observe the guidelines in future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Is there a way of viewing flagged comments or are they permanently gone forever? The lack of readability prevents understanding replies, even if the original post is unwanted.

Turn on showdead and weep

E.g.: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecu...

Historically, visa overstays accounted for about half of illegal immigrants.

Some states passed laws to protect the right to record law enforcement officers in public places. Some states passed laws to forbid it. Courts said the laws to forbid it violated the 1st amendment.[1][2]

[1] https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/filming-the-police/

[2] https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/recording-police-publ...

> $50B is being wasted on rounding up non-violent migrants

How many dollars did these "non-violent" (economic) "migrants" expend in emergency room resources?

How many productive citizens died (and how much financial loss was incurred) because of their (mis)use of these finite systems?

why are you asking me? shouldn't you be making the case for that instead?

Why are so many farmers relying on illegal immigrants? why are so many employers depending on them? You don't really think 11 million people are using emergency rooms while at the same time being criminals do you now? why are local pd's not concerned about this? why are cities with illegal migrants not worried about them? You don't really think people in cities would rather be victims of crime than deport illegal migrants do you? How are mayors being re-elected if they're not hard on illegal migrants but those migrants are causing crime?

Show me the economical analysis that shows they're a net-negative on the economy? Show me the hospitals complaining about emergency rooms packed with illegal migrants constantly needing ER care, because they're so clumsy? What is the crime and murder rate with illegal migrants compared to natural born citizens? Despite crime rates going down over the years, and the top causes of violent crime not involving illegal migration, why is $50B, a larger budget than the US marines! being focused on this?

I bet you'd have cheered for the rounding up of jews and slavs in europe ~80yrs ago lol.

I think your prejudice has won the battle against your critical thinking skills.

Well said. If any of this were actually about immigration, it wouldn't be nearly as alarming.

After decades of being conservative and having their politicians sell them out, Republicans got really angry and gave up on conservatism in favor of radical destructionism instead. Rather than finding better politicians to represent them, focusing on workable policy (go after the employers), generally being less gullible, and so on, they decided the appropriate response was to throw the whole idea of Constitutionally-limited government in the trash in favor of a strongman con artist promising to magically solve it all. And they've convinced themselves they're on the right path because it makes "liberals" mad. Where of course a "liberal" is anyone concerned by throwing our Constitution in the trash.

> Godwin - This is such a lazy argument (especially for someone harping on "critical thinking skills.")

It was a criticism of your character, not a argument in a debate, so Godwin's law doesn't apply here.

> $1 is too much.

$1 is too much because they're migrants, so spend $50B? but billions by natural born citizens isn't too much, so who cares about crime? The mental gymnastics! lol

> Comparing rounding up illegal economic migrants who are actively breaking long-standing (enacted decades before they were born) federal law for the purpose of economic gain to law-abiding Jews being taken from their homes during an act of genocide is unconscionable.

Not a good argument. there are no arrest warrants, trials, due process,etc.. afforded to these supposedly illegal migrants. plenty of cases where US citizens are being rounded up, beaten and disappeared as well.

There is a case in "aligator alcatraz" where 1200 people are missing without a trace for example. these are concentration camps.

I'm not disagreeing with deporting illegal migrants, so don't waste your breath on that. Justify to me why $50B is worth the investment. why is $1 too much when it is an illegal immigrant, but if your own child/family/friend was raped by crackhead it isn't worth $50B, because they were born in the US?

If you care about the law so much, why not spend that money in opening lots of immigration courts and training ICE to follow the law and do things lawfully instead? You're not for the law, you're for wasting money and racially profiling americans. In your view, american citizens being detained because of their phsyical appearance is ok. Children being treated in hospitals being deported is ok.

You crave the cruelty. You have abandoned your humanity in pursuit of cruelty towards your fellow man. I'm agreeing with you that deporting illegal migrants is fine, sanctuary cities shouldn't be a thing. lawfully removing illegal migrants is fine, yet your argument is to deprive people of due process (which all humans on US soil are afforded), and beyond that, committing of acts that no law can absolve your conscious of is still the way to go. And not only that, this brutality is worth spending more money on that even a military branch whose entire job is invading other countries. You're fine with masked soldiers kidnapping US citizens. You have betrayed your people.

I like to thin foreign influence campaigns had a lot do with it. Everything these people are doing is like a playbook of destruction seen all over the world during the cold war and beyond. The heritage foundation and GOP leadership have heavy russian influence. Social media influence campaigns don't help either.

Something a lot of people aren't considering is that a dictator ship might become a reality and these people will succeed, the US will decline but still remain a powerful country but with constant internal strife and divisions. The real goal seems to be curbing American influence overseas, and containing the US, just like the US tried to contain Russia and China for decades prior.

The US military/intel community literally used sitcoms to influence the middle east in the 2000's. What goes around...

The other half of it is the GOP long ago put themselves up for sale to the highest bidders. Those high bidders used to be the American business community, so they'd work to pass legislation that helped existing US businesses at the expense of US citizens [0]. But at least the US as a whole remained the world leader. However those high bidders have now become foreign interests, so the policies are directly aimed at hurting our country.

I think this is the real outcome of having so much debt owed to foreign countries. The political kayfabe all focuses on it like it's some mortgage where other countries will foreclose or whatever. But there is no mechanism for that to actually occur. What it does allow those foreign countries to do is to buy up significant chunks of the US, and then exert the control that customarily comes along with ownership.

[0] this is also why they'd constantly rage-farm about immigration, but then turn around and facilitate the supply of cheap illegal labor