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249 points Jtsummers | 12 comments | | HN request time: 0.736s | source | bottom
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reenorap ◴[] No.45762822[source]
PG&E's most transparent fraud is by forcing people to move everything to electricity and then forcing them to use less electricity, and then complaining they aren't making enough money so that they raise electricity rates. Last year, PG&E raised rates 6 times. I'm now paying double the per kWh rates from only 4 years ago.

PG&E now wants to charge solar panel owners $100+/month just for the privilege of being connected to the grid. This is on top of their $0.41-54/kWh they already charge, the highest in the nation.

PG&E is a government-supported scam that is charging people whatever prices they want with no protection from our politicians because they are all on the take.

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jeffbee ◴[] No.45762871[source]
PG&E should be expropriated by the state, but your 2nd point is just homeowner propaganda. NEM account holders really are free-riding on the grid in a way that is deeply unfair to the rest of PG&E ratepayers.
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1. BriggyDwiggs42 ◴[] No.45763016[source]
Why so?
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2. adrr ◴[] No.45763162[source]
Grid costs a lot more money than power generation. It’s 60+% of the bill. Really wish they went with fixed grid hookup costs that includes delivery and usage for power generation.
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3. bell-cot ◴[] No.45763245[source]
I'm not familiar with Cali's NEM scheme...but does it work like this?

- Electric utility must make up to _forward_maximum_kW of electrical energy available to customer, 24x7, at _rate

- Customer may force electrical utility to accept up to _reverse_maximum_kW - without notice, at his sole discretion, and without regard for electrical utility's needs or wishes, at _rate

If so, just talk to any sane businessman about the viability of being stuck on the utility's end of such a deal.

replies(1): >>45763332 #
4. philipkglass ◴[] No.45763328[source]
Residential electricity service from PG&E has never properly separated the fixed costs of service delivery to a location (maintaining poles, transformers, and wires) from the cost of marginal energy consumption. It has folded much of the fixed infrastructure costs into the per-kilowatt-hour unit price. This functions as an implicit subsidy for households that need grid tied electrical service but do not consume much electricity from the grid.

These implicit subsidies used to mostly benefit lower-income households (though not always: properties like seasonal vacation houses also benefited). Now, higher-income households are more likely to benefit from this structure because they are more likely to install rooftop solar (reducing kWh consumption) but still need the grid to work at night. Crediting solar households for grid exports makes this problem especially acute but it would also exist even if solar households were merely reducing the kWh drawn from the grid during daytime.

One remedy could be to fully separate the costs of fixed infrastructure from per-kWh unit charges and set prices directly proportional to costs. But that is probably politically unfeasible because there will be outcry that prices proportional to costs would hurt low-income, low-consumption households.

Another way to remedy it would use the previous approach but give offsetting vouchers to households that would face financial hardship as a result of the change in pricing structure. I don't know why the underlying issue has remained unaddressed in favor of patchy solar-specific changes to the law.

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5. jeffbee ◴[] No.45763332[source]
Yeah that pretty much describes NEM 2.0
6. BriggyDwiggs42 ◴[] No.45763444[source]
Wow that makes sense yeah, and it’s difficult because you don’t want to disincentivize solar but socializing the grid costs, which would normally be a good move, does have that effect when done like this.
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7. BriggyDwiggs42 ◴[] No.45763463[source]
That would fuck over poor rural households right?
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8. colechristensen ◴[] No.45763572{3}[source]
At this point it just isn't grid costs though, it's paying for PG&E's long history of enormous liabilities in connection to wildfires.
9. lsaferite ◴[] No.45763767[source]
This is the exact issue in most grids TBH. Not sure I've seen one that has properly priced fixed costs with properly priced usage costs. My grid has the split, but the costs seem out of proportion. I'd say if the concern is low-income pricing, factor out fixed costs and rates so the the mean low-income prices stay the same. Mix that with only offering wholesale rates for customer backfeed and some reasonable controls about how much and when customers can backfeed.
10. reenorap ◴[] No.45763879[source]
I wouldn't care if the money were actually going to improving the system but it's not, it's going to shareholders and paying for their crimes. The fact we have to pay for their crimes and their CEO and execs and shareholders can continue to increase their salaries and bonuses along with our rates just makes me very angry. The entire company should be held responsible and things like THEIR bonuses should be withheld until the company has fixed everything.
11. pfdietz ◴[] No.45763931{3}[source]
At this point many should just be given a check to convert to solar. Maybe microgrids in small clustered enclaves.
12. jandrese ◴[] No.45763945[source]
> maintaining poles, transformers, and wires

The things that PG&E has notably been neglecting, resulting in highly destructive wildfires?

The idea that it costs every single ratepayer $100/month to maintain the infrastructure is ludicrous. It's just attempting to deflect blame from PG&E's horrible mismanagement to environmentalists.

In places with honestly run utilities that cost is closer to $5-$10/month per household.