It would be only just if the Palestinians would get their own state after this.
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The current situation is like somebody commits a murder. Then the community rounds up a posse and goes out to kill the murderer. Then kill the murder's family, their neighbors, the residents of the next neighborhood over, raze the neighborhoods and then take all the land for themselves.
Justice means penalizing the guilty parties, not everyone in their geographical/social group. Your definition of Justice is leaky.
It's important to note that these things never happened, and you're still repeating them years later. The only baby that died on 10/7 was a 10 month old hit by crossfire.
I have no idea of the third, and though I feel sure it's wrong judging by the rest of what you have said, I feel obligated to check. Try it.
A singular terrorist event is not the same as an multi-decade occupation, on-going theft of land, discrimination, annexation plans, and - not least - a 2 year long genocide of tens of thousands of civilians.
So, no, that isn't what Hamas did.
I expect those two categories to behave differently from one another. Do you?
The crimes of Hamas are well documented, not only by Israel who admittedly might have some bias, but also by several in the OSINT community before Hamas realized their mistake and started deleting.
You questioning it only tells us you don't know much about what happened.
> the argument would be to punish Hamas, and not run around shooting children in the head,
Exactly like we dealt with the nazis and not a single child was hurt, right?
Or maybe take "war 101" and "war 201" and learn a thing or two about both why the laws of war explicitly bans using civilians as shields and also explicitly point out that human shields can be ignored. (Yes, it does. Feel free to look it up, and as homework, consider why the laws of war points this out ao explicitly. Here is a link, I don't expect you to have tje laws of war bookmarked: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/arti...)
And that is also what we see.
When did IDF try to outdo the rape of Nanking?
When did Hamas follow the laws of war ever so slightly?
Not only collected by Israel but also by the wider OSINT community.
And how could you oppose both the occupation and annexation plans? Annexation is an end to occupation, no? I also think that the occupation has been going on for far too long, though I fault UNRWA and the PA for that as much as I fault Israel.
350 000 to 500 000 Germans died in allied bombing.
Did the Germans become the good guys when the German civilian death toll exceeded the UK death toll?
Or even just when US got involved since Germany hadn't attacked US civilians?
No?
> It's important to note that these things never happened
> most of which didn't happen
I disagree. Your definition of justice inadvertently prevents justice. Holding Hamas accountable for the thousands of rocket attacks and the mass murder / mutilation / rape of October 7 means hunting down all of them, getting rid of their weapons, and freeing hostages. You can only do so with some degree of collateral damage since they’re hiding in civilian populations.
But also, “civilian” is debatable. It’s this same population that voted for Hamas despite their charter explicitly calling for religious genocide. It’s the same population that supports Hamas even after the mass murder / mutilation / rape of October 7, according to multiple polls. It’s the same population that has so many times turned a blind eye to the actions of Hamas.
Taking both together, nothing you've said justifies what has taken place over the last 2 years.
And your comment on annexation as an end to occupation was truly bizarre, but ... unsurprising at this stage.
Regardless. I accept it's reasonable that sexualised violence took place. I accept the what happened on 7th Oct was a horrible terrorist act.
But, and apologies if this hurts, none of that, absolutely none of that, justifies what has taken place since.
There is no place in this world for genocide. Particularly from a country that preaches "never again".
Nothing you can say will change my opinion on that.
Israel has really fucked up. It destroyed Gaza, yes. But in so doing destroyed it's reputation and standing for at least a generation.
But, and apologies if this hurts, none of that, absolutely none of that, justifies what has taken place since.
There is no place in this world for genocide. Particularly from a country that preaches "never again".
Nothing you can say will change my opinion on that.
Israel has really fucked up. It destroyed Gaza, yes. But in so doing destroyed it's reputation and standing for at least a generation.
> There is no place in this world for genocide. Particularly from a country that preaches "never again". Nothing you can say will change my opinion on that.
I am showing you that the accusations of genocide against Israel are beyond ridiculous. They are manufactured to favour the side that 1) provides oil, and 2) is in idealogical conflict with the United States. Most countries of the world either need oil or are similarly in an idealogical conflict with the US.
Just for example, the United Nations report that slanders the Jewish State about committing genocide starts off with this prose: "On 7 October 2023, Israel launched its military offensive in Gaza, which included airstrikes and ground operations". Does that sound like a logical summary of that day's events?
Not just dishonest. But sickening, frankly.
Obviously if the nazis and hamas had come out and surrendered we wouldn't have had to.
But sometimes one has to take out evil. Be it nazis in Berlin or Hamas in Gaza.
And it also serves as a lesson. A lesson certain countries might soon have to learn the hard way:
don't vote for evil, and if you did, don't be the ones who line the streets to cheer for them like Germans and Gazans did.
Like IAGS whose findings were widely reported until it turned out the biggest qualifications for its 500 expert members was that they had paid a $30 membership fee? And whose openly accessible member list included "Adolf Hitler"?
The emperor has no clothes and no amount of reports from the royal court of UN will change that:
It is plain for everyone to see and the emperors naked butt is disgusting.
It is also insulting to actual victims of actual genocides.
By your logic most of what happened in 1944 and 1945 when 350 000 to 500 000 German civilians died were probably injustice.
But in the real world we need to deal with the people who again and again attack their neighbors in vicious ways.
And we need to finish it.
When this is over, people like you should be forced to go to those graves and the destruction and be made to reflect and be educated.
Just like people are now sent to Auschwitz.
You're the flip side coin equivalent of Holocaust deniers. My condolences on where you've ended up in life. Bye.