It would be only just if the Palestinians would get their own state after this.
replies(6):
Just as most of the citizens of Iran are victims of an Islamic totalitarian government, just as many Germans were victims of the fascist dictatorship that took hold of their nation, most human beings living near the southeast bit of the Levantine Sea are victims of actions outside their control.
They're collectively paying the price for horrific violence on both sides of an ugly, tragic conflict that they have no power over.
Giving those victims some sovereignty and peace would not be "rewarding" extremists, it would be taking a tiny step towards sanity.
and storming a music festival and houses to abduct completely innocent teenagers and even toddlers to use them for leverage?
Honestly?
The current situation is like somebody commits a murder. Then the community rounds up a posse and goes out to kill the murderer. Then kill the murder's family, their neighbors, the residents of the next neighborhood over, raze the neighborhoods and then take all the land for themselves.
Justice means penalizing the guilty parties, not everyone in their geographical/social group. Your definition of Justice is leaky.
Israelis hit back hard. But they haven't been the ones to declare war on peaceful neighbors.
It wasn't them who stood for thr München massacre or a number of plane hijackings in the 70ies.
It wasn't Israelis who blew up buses in Gaza.
Was it?
We must stop confusing powerful with evil and currently helpless with "innocent".
Look to Israel, the source of decades of suffering for everyone in the region, including its own citizens whom it exposes to retaliatory violence in response to the violence it delivers to its neighbors.
Or is it kind of logical that when you vote actual genocidal maniacs into power and cheer for them as they return from murder and rape, you hide the hostages they took and refuse to do anything to stop them, then maybe you aren't completely innocent?
It's important to note that these things never happened, and you're still repeating them years later. The only baby that died on 10/7 was a 10 month old hit by crossfire.
I have no idea of the third, and though I feel sure it's wrong judging by the rest of what you have said, I feel obligated to check. Try it.
A singular terrorist event is not the same as an multi-decade occupation, on-going theft of land, discrimination, annexation plans, and - not least - a 2 year long genocide of tens of thousands of civilians.
So, no, that isn't what Hamas did.
I expect those two categories to behave differently from one another. Do you?
In just the past two weeks Israel attacked a half dozen of its neighboring countries.
Israel itself is a belligerent Western colony that has been ethnically cleansing Palestine since the 1940s.
It is the obligation for an occupied people to resist their occupiers, and according to the UN that is up to and includes violent resistence. The entirety of Palestine has been increasingly under occupation since Israel's inception.
Countless UN resolutions highlight Israels belligerence time and again with only the US and its subservient states like Micronesia voting against the overwhelming voice of the whole rest of the world.
Israel is an evil apartheid genocial settler colonial state that has brought nothing but further war and bloodshed to the region, and nothing Zionists state can change that fact.
I think you omitted part of it.
The crimes of Hamas are well documented, not only by Israel who admittedly might have some bias, but also by several in the OSINT community before Hamas realized their mistake and started deleting.
You questioning it only tells us you don't know much about what happened.
> the argument would be to punish Hamas, and not run around shooting children in the head,
Exactly like we dealt with the nazis and not a single child was hurt, right?
Or maybe take "war 101" and "war 201" and learn a thing or two about both why the laws of war explicitly bans using civilians as shields and also explicitly point out that human shields can be ignored. (Yes, it does. Feel free to look it up, and as homework, consider why the laws of war points this out ao explicitly. Here is a link, I don't expect you to have tje laws of war bookmarked: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/arti...)
And that is also what we see.
When did IDF try to outdo the rape of Nanking?
When did Hamas follow the laws of war ever so slightly?
Not only collected by Israel but also by the wider OSINT community.
That is what I meant by completely innocent.
edit:
Also, any reason why you mention Ben Gvir but not the many Palestinian Arab leaders who says worse?
Any reason you don't mention the hundreds of thousands of Israelis who fill the street to protest its current government and the absolute lack of anyone who protests Hamas in the streets of Gaza?
Hope this helps.
Not withholding UN funds that Israel was tasked with distributing, right?
And how could you oppose both the occupation and annexation plans? Annexation is an end to occupation, no? I also think that the occupation has been going on for far too long, though I fault UNRWA and the PA for that as much as I fault Israel.
350 000 to 500 000 Germans died in allied bombing.
Did the Germans become the good guys when the German civilian death toll exceeded the UK death toll?
Or even just when US got involved since Germany hadn't attacked US civilians?
No?
> It's important to note that these things never happened
> most of which didn't happen
Lebanon’s - hezbollah has fired rockets into Israel on oct 8th 2023 Iraq - fired rockets in solidarity of Gaza Yemen - fired rockets in solidarity of Gaza Syria - fired rockets in solidarity of Gaza Iran - fired the largest array of ballistic missiles to Israel after Israel bombed an consulate in Syria where Hamas and hezbolla were congregating Qatar - that’s the only country that didn’t physically attack Israel, but they did finance Hamas for the past decade, and operate a global information war against Israel via Al Jazeera
[0] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/10/maps-israel-has-att...
Syria is at war with Israel since decades.
Lebanon has been shooting rockets at Israel and preparing ground attacks. Yemen (or rather the Houtis) keep firing at Israel.
Are these the examples you want to show about Israel being bad?
Edit: Tunisia hasn't been attacked. The influencer convoy was attacked by their own flare and media claimed ot was a drone until every OSINT researchers pointed out it was a flare not a drone.
Israel has been the single most belligerent nation in the middle east, attacking and antagonizing their own so-called allies for its entire existence.
Israel is responsible for attacking the British (King David Hotel), the US (USS Liberty), all of its neighbors, and even others more distant (Tunisia). It in their nature to antagonize their neighbors because they WANT conflict. They occupy lands that once belonged to Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria. They aspire to occupy far greater regions. They are not interested in peace, only on expanding their borders. They continue to build settlements on what little land people still call Palestine. They are committing a recognized genocide in Gaza. Resisting and stopping this is not just a right, but a mandatory action according to the genocide convention.
If not for the US support of Israel, it could never act with such impunity.
Israel brought nothing to the region? Let’s review.
Israel has the highest gdp by a great margin.
Israel is an important exporter of technology to the world, be it cyber tech, water tech, agriculture tech or defense tech.
Israel has the highest number of startups per capita in the world.
Israel has more Nobel laureates than the entire rest of the Middle East.
Last olymipcs Israel won more medal than the rest of the Middle East.
Palestines primary exports pretty much mounts to terrorism and sedition.
So yeah, Israel is an extremely successful country, saying otherwise is either ignorance, or malicious.
All of what you said does nothing for the region as they continue to expand their own borders by stealing more and more land from their neighbors (they recently took MORE land from Syria as the new government took shape). Their achievements are marred by their vicious genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza and increasingly genocidal behavior in the West Bank as well. Of course you'll economically prosper if you consider stealing and occupying a legitimate right of yours. They achieve all of this by bringing bloodshed and war to the region, which they call for from the US time and time again.
How many times has Bibi Netanyahu gone before Congress to pull the US into another war in the Middle East? The US foots the bill to weaken their neighbors so they stand out more. That's not an economic achievement to be proud of or boasting about.
They can have all the startups they want, but they have the worst human rights record of any country currently, with the largest number of condemnations in the UN of any other country but always vetoed by the US. When you don't have to worry about being judged the same as other countries, then you are free to develop your country without worry about petty things like human rights violations as long as Uncle Sam foots the security bill and sends over more contracts.
Israel and those who unconditionally support it are complicit in its genocide.
Palestine is a relatively recent term. Long before that, the ancestors of today’s Jews occupied this region. We’re talking about the literal Bronze Age. The land NEVER belonged to Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, or Syria.
The modern state of Israel with its present borders were a creation of the Second World War. But if you go back in time to ~1000 BC, Jewish people occupied the entire region (much broader than just Israel), and they are the only surviving indigenous people of the region. This isn’t even controversial. Virtually all historians and scholars acknowledge this because there is literal physical evidence in the buildings at Temple Mount and elsewhere, which are all dated back to that time.
Or that after they got soundly defeated, Israel was nice enough to give back a lot of their lost territory.
I disagree. Your definition of justice inadvertently prevents justice. Holding Hamas accountable for the thousands of rocket attacks and the mass murder / mutilation / rape of October 7 means hunting down all of them, getting rid of their weapons, and freeing hostages. You can only do so with some degree of collateral damage since they’re hiding in civilian populations.
But also, “civilian” is debatable. It’s this same population that voted for Hamas despite their charter explicitly calling for religious genocide. It’s the same population that supports Hamas even after the mass murder / mutilation / rape of October 7, according to multiple polls. It’s the same population that has so many times turned a blind eye to the actions of Hamas.
Taking both together, nothing you've said justifies what has taken place over the last 2 years.
And your comment on annexation as an end to occupation was truly bizarre, but ... unsurprising at this stage.
Regardless. I accept it's reasonable that sexualised violence took place. I accept the what happened on 7th Oct was a horrible terrorist act.
But, and apologies if this hurts, none of that, absolutely none of that, justifies what has taken place since.
There is no place in this world for genocide. Particularly from a country that preaches "never again".
Nothing you can say will change my opinion on that.
Israel has really fucked up. It destroyed Gaza, yes. But in so doing destroyed it's reputation and standing for at least a generation.
But, and apologies if this hurts, none of that, absolutely none of that, justifies what has taken place since.
There is no place in this world for genocide. Particularly from a country that preaches "never again".
Nothing you can say will change my opinion on that.
Israel has really fucked up. It destroyed Gaza, yes. But in so doing destroyed it's reputation and standing for at least a generation.
> There is no place in this world for genocide. Particularly from a country that preaches "never again". Nothing you can say will change my opinion on that.
I am showing you that the accusations of genocide against Israel are beyond ridiculous. They are manufactured to favour the side that 1) provides oil, and 2) is in idealogical conflict with the United States. Most countries of the world either need oil or are similarly in an idealogical conflict with the US.
Just for example, the United Nations report that slanders the Jewish State about committing genocide starts off with this prose: "On 7 October 2023, Israel launched its military offensive in Gaza, which included airstrikes and ground operations". Does that sound like a logical summary of that day's events?
Not just dishonest. But sickening, frankly.
Hopefully you have decades left in your life. One from now, I would be immensely grateful if you emailed me and let me know your perspective on your past-self's defense of genocide.
Obviously if the nazis and hamas had come out and surrendered we wouldn't have had to.
But sometimes one has to take out evil. Be it nazis in Berlin or Hamas in Gaza.
And it also serves as a lesson. A lesson certain countries might soon have to learn the hard way:
don't vote for evil, and if you did, don't be the ones who line the streets to cheer for them like Germans and Gazans did.
Like IAGS whose findings were widely reported until it turned out the biggest qualifications for its 500 expert members was that they had paid a $30 membership fee? And whose openly accessible member list included "Adolf Hitler"?
The emperor has no clothes and no amount of reports from the royal court of UN will change that:
It is plain for everyone to see and the emperors naked butt is disgusting.
It is also insulting to actual victims of actual genocides.
By your logic most of what happened in 1944 and 1945 when 350 000 to 500 000 German civilians died were probably injustice.
But in the real world we need to deal with the people who again and again attack their neighbors in vicious ways.
And we need to finish it.
When this is over, people like you should be forced to go to those graves and the destruction and be made to reflect and be educated.
Just like people are now sent to Auschwitz.
You're the flip side coin equivalent of Holocaust deniers. My condolences on where you've ended up in life. Bye.
https://www.democracynow.org/2025/9/12/headlines/israeli_for...
I guess to someone with your ideology collective punishment of Palestinians is normal day, but when the world sees it we are repulsed.
You will probably also like to know that the plans for a modern Israel started long before WW2 and Holocaust, and originally not because of persecution of Jews by Europeans in Europe but because of persecution of Jews by Arabs in the middle East.
Admit that 07th of October 2023 wasn't their greatest idea ever (their official position is that it is, but also just a taste of what is to come.)