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713 points freedomben | 17 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
1. arprocter ◴[] No.44606758[source]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melinda_Tankard_Reist#Collecti...
replies(1): >>44608067 #
2. raincole ◴[] No.44608067[source]
> a "pro-life feminist"

What.

Seriously what? I thought pro-choice is a core tenet of feminism?

replies(2): >>44608406 #>>44610903 #
3. Ancapistani ◴[] No.44608406[source]
Why would it be?

I live in a red state in the South. I'd say about 2/3 of the women I know well enough to be confident of their politics to that degree of detail would describe themselves as both feminists and anti-abortion/pro-life.

If you want to put a name to it, they're basically second-wave feminists with a few third-wave beliefs tacked on.

The real lesson here is that politics are nuanced, and the US party dichotomy doesn't come close to covering it.

I consider myself an AnCap (shocking given my username, I know), but grew up here surrounded by Republicans. I fit in well enough overall because this is where I developed my "social mask" in the first place. I lived in a community with nearly directly opposite politics (Charlottesville, VA) for a few years and found that I fit in pretty well with that crowd as well.

I share enough with both parties that I can have conversations on things that I agree with them on and connect to the point that they assume that I'm "one of them". Invariably, once conversation turns to other topics I'm accused of being a member of the other party. It's to the point that it amuses me when it happens, and I frankly enjoy being in a place where I can connect with most everyone and serve as a sort of translator: I've spent enough time "in enemy territory" from their perspectives that I can explain the other side's position fairly and with empathy while explicitly not holding that position. It makes for stimulating conversation with little risk of offense.

replies(1): >>44610578 #
4. pazimzadeh ◴[] No.44610578{3}[source]
Because "anti-abortion/pro-life" removes a right from women. Trading the rights of a developed adult for the rights of a hypothetical future person.

What does ancapistanism have to do with it? Is there a non-religious reason to be against the right to choose abortion up to 24 weeks of pregnancy?

replies(3): >>44610711 #>>44610735 #>>44611043 #
5. dmix ◴[] No.44610711{4}[source]
Well social/religious conservatives often think the child has rights even during pregnancy so it's not as simple as the mothers rights.

The libertarian view tends to much more favour the parents rights to make choices for their children if I remember correctly, and obviously favour the option where the government isn't deciding for them.

replies(2): >>44611071 #>>44611855 #
6. bigstrat2003 ◴[] No.44610735{4}[source]
> Is there a non-religious reason to be against the right to choose abortion up to 24 weeks of pregnancy?

Of course there is. It's not hard to construct an argument to that effect either. For example: let's agree for the sake of argument that a newborn has moral rights, and that gametes do not. It doesn't make much sense to give the fetus moral rights only based on its physical location, therefore at some point between conception and birth the fetus gains moral rights. No matter what point n we choose, the objection "why is one day earlier any better" seems pretty persuasive. Therefore, by induction, the only point for assigning rights which can't be argued against in that way is at conception. Thus, we should disallow abortion so we aren't depriving the fetus of its rights.

I'm not saying that's a bulletproof argument. Indeed the argument doesn't even need to be correct for my point. My point is that nothing about that argument requires any religious belief whatsoever. So it is possible. I'm also quite certain that a cleverer person than I could construct a better argument which still doesn't require any religious dogma. This is an ethical topic, not a religious one. Obviously religion has a lot to say on ethics, but that's no reason to believe that secular arguments against abortion can't exist.

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7. wavemode ◴[] No.44610903[source]
You could have clicked the link embedded in the very text you're quoting, to read an explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_feminism
8. Ancapistani ◴[] No.44611043{4}[source]
> Because "anti-abortion/pro-life" removes a right from women. Trading the rights of a developed adult for the rights of a hypothetical future person.

Their perspective is that abortion is killing a human being. Given that, it’s entirely consistent.

> What does ancapistanism have to do with it?

Nothing, other than that I was providing some context on where I’m coming from.

> Is there a non-religious reason to be against the right to choose abortion up to 24 weeks of pregnancy?

While religion is certainly a factor for a lot of these people, this question doesn’t make sense to me. Is there a non-religious reason to be against killing any person, regardless of age?

The base difference in perspective is that the other side here believes that the fetus is a human being, with all the rights that come with it.

replies(1): >>44611818 #
9. Ancapistani ◴[] No.44611071{5}[source]
Exactly.

My personal belief is that life begins at conception. As a result, I’m opposed to abortion in all cases.

… but I’m also an anarchist, and therefore believe it is emphatically not the state’s role to make these types of decisions for people.

I don’t think there is a “right answer” here in terms of policy. Some large portion of the people will see it as a violation of their rights no matter how extreme or nuanced the line is drawn.

replies(1): >>44612602 #
10. pazimzadeh ◴[] No.44611826{5}[source]
cool, then sperm and eggs have moral rights
11. pazimzadeh ◴[] No.44611855{5}[source]
Right, is there a non-religious reason to be against the right to choose to abort early during pregnancy?
replies(2): >>44612121 #>>44612343 #
12. userbinator ◴[] No.44612121{6}[source]
If you want population growth.
replies(1): >>44612516 #
13. ◴[] No.44612343{6}[source]
14. Dylan16807 ◴[] No.44612464{5}[source]
> No matter what point n we choose, the objection "why is one day earlier any better" seems pretty persuasive. Therefore, by induction

That's not persuasive at all. It's not just not "bulletproof", it's blatantly wrong. Also you can make the same argument in the other direction.

> Indeed the argument doesn't even need to be correct for my point. My point is that nothing about that argument requires any religious belief whatsoever.

They wanted someone to give a plausible argument that isn't religious.

> no reason to believe that secular arguments against abortion can't exist

I care about the merits of positions that people actually have, not theoretical positions.

And in the general case, if nobody can be found that has a simple position, that is a reason to believe it's not a coherent position.

15. pazimzadeh ◴[] No.44612516{7}[source]
a moral reason
16. xcrunner529 ◴[] No.44612602{6}[source]
There is no unique dna at conception. I know this is fun to repeat but it really shows you ignore science. .
17. kaibee ◴[] No.44616699{5}[source]
> Therefore, by induction,

One grain of sand is a small amount of sand. Two grains of sand is a small amount of sand. Therefore, by induction, any amount of grains of sand is a small amount of sand. The Sahara contains a small amount of sand.

This is fun.