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506 points imakwana | 3 comments | | HN request time: 1.068s | source
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thoroughburro ◴[] No.43750908[source]
They were provided with a quite plausible motivation. What is the plausible motivation in your scenario?
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noduerme ◴[] No.43751133[source]
I appreciate what you're saying, but plausibility is a funny way to put it, since such a motivation would not have been plausible prior to Oct 7. Before that, I was a curious minority, and they liked to congratulate themsleves on welcoming minorities. Since no one had any problem with me before Oct 7th and then within days of seeing a lot of Jews killed, they apparently all got the bloodlust, I can only conclude that what makes this "plausible" is that they innately have some quantum of racism that, having been forced to suppress themselves so long and not criticize anyone, they're overjoyed to find a group of people to unleash it on. Particularly if they can call those people "white" like themselves, as a way to offset the shame they've been taught. Of which external group I'm probably the only one they've ever met. My only other Jewish acquaintance in the area - who is an absolute pacifist - has also been almost equally shunned out of every place. Except again, strangely, the Arabic-owned places. He works at one.

So if by "plausible" you mean that, yes, you can imagine someone doing that, then you're right. If "plausible" means that you think it's justified, then that's another issue.

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throw99841216[dead post] ◴[] No.43753097[source]
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dingnuts[dead post] ◴[] No.43753874[source]
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1. noduerme ◴[] No.43755540[source]
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2. viccis ◴[] No.43756790[source]
>I think you have a blind spot to the fact that the war has been an excuse for people to go after Jews

I don't think antisemites have ever needed excuses to justify their conduct to themselves or others. And I have yet to see any outcomes for Jews in the US or UK that even approach the consequences that Arabs and those who have vocally opposed Israel's actions have faced.

>The very first thing I heard from most of the antifa people was some variation of "They had it coming."

Imagine asking some Jewish friends in 1944 in Poland what they thought about the victims of the Home Army during the Warsaw Uprising. You have to put yourself in other peoples' shoes if you want to understand their perspective.

>And with them, I can have a real conversation about the facts without any hatred or heated tempers.

You actually can't. Arabs know very well that they are being racially scrutinized when it comes to their views about this conflict, and they all know that the best course of action is to be as loudly and visibly Not Mean To Jewish Or Israeli People. It's not a real conversation because the power balance is way off; you have the state apparatus behind you (assuming US or UK) as well as a wide range of doxxing and terrorizing organizations like Betar. There is no free speech when it comes to opinions on Israel in either country I mentioned.

>It's indigenous homeland of the Jewish people.

I'm well aware of the Blut und Boden narrative about it, and settler colonialism has made fantastic use of it many times in the past (Liberia for example). It is absolutely an ethnostate however, per its own government's legislation (the 2018 Nation-State Bill). An ethnostate can include preferential treatment to a variety of types of Jews (though not all, as many African ones are excluded or subjected to scrutiny not faced by European ones).

>The fact that you have a problem with one particular ethno/religious state out of all the states in the Middle East and the world says plenty about your personal biases.

I don't, and hell it ain't even just the Middle East. Ask me what I think about the Azeris...

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3. viccis ◴[] No.43757349{4}[source]
>Firstly, this thread is exactly about how I've felt racially scrutinized and suspect

I'm actually not talking about thoughts and feelings at all. I'm talking about domestic murders, deportations, and similar violence both from the state and from vigilantes.

>any pro-Israel opinion which is verboten in my neighborhood

This, and the massive shift against Israel among every demographic, is a result of a well publicized series of atrocities, a series that dwarfs the 725 civilians killed during the Gazan military's Operation Al-Aqsa Flood operation in both scope and cruelty.

>Extra points for simultaneously taking away the agency of all Arabs everywhere.

It's not a matter of agency, it's a matter of power. They still have agency, and the power structure I am talking about isn't contingent; it's categorical given its racialized nature.

>You seem to understand them so well.

I do, yes.

>Tell us what they all think.

None of my categorical statements have concerned the subjectivity of Arabs, only the objective contingencies with which they are presented. Plenty of them have chosen not to hide their opinions, and they are currently being tracked and rounded up in the US as a consequence.