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593 points mooreds | 15 comments | | HN request time: 1.775s | source | bottom
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leshokunin ◴[] No.42176328[source]
The constant Russian interference, combined with the regular escalation from the jets patrolling, and the radar jamming, really needs to be dealt with.

We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation. This feels like constant creep.

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1. grapesodaaaaa ◴[] No.42176616[source]
> Maybe a strategic nuke on Kaliningrad if any provocation happens.

Surely you must be joking about a first-strike nuclear provocation or larger. I would think almost anything other than a border incursion could be dealt with in other ways.

Should Putin be held more accountable for his actions? Absolutely, but a nuclear response is not going to go well unless absolutely justified.

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2. cynicalsecurity ◴[] No.42176928[source]
You are replying to a Russian bot, most likely.
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3. dzhiurgis ◴[] No.42177137{3}[source]
Interesting twist…

I chose “provocation” because thats what russians often use (and call for nuking west pretty much every day for decades now).

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4. dzhiurgis ◴[] No.42177162[source]
Fear is the greatest weapon. You can keep sanctioning them, but you’ll never get anywhere.

Give nukes to Ukraine, even pretend ones and war will end in minutes.

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5. jiggawatts ◴[] No.42177262{3}[source]
Imagine an enraged man ready to punch an aggressor in the face being held back by his friends.

You propose to walk up to him, have him released and give him a loaded gun.

The world would blame you, not the wound up man itching for revenge.

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6. johnisgood ◴[] No.42177273{3}[source]
Highly doubt.
7. ◴[] No.42177335{4}[source]
8. pavlov ◴[] No.42177349{3}[source]
Putin is old enough to remember the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, when their side actually tried this and had to back down.
9. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.42177356{3}[source]
> Give nukes to Ukraine, even pretend ones and war will end in minutes

This is the wrong answer. But it's clear non-proliferation has failed. If Ukraine had kept its nukes from the 90s, this wouldn't have happened. It would have had the ability to credibly threaten that it had reverse engineered the arming mechanisms.

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10. s1artibartfast ◴[] No.42177792{4}[source]
My understanding is that they were always in Russian control, kind of like how the US keeps nuclear assets at overseas bases.

Not only did the Russians have the codes, but they had soldiers in physical control with the ability to scuttle the devices.

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11. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.42178141{5}[source]
> My understanding is that they were always in Russian control, kind of like how the US keeps nuclear assets at overseas bases

No. The 43rd Rocket Army "became part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" on 6 December 1991 [1]. Unlike American warheads, which are on U.S. bases, those were Russian warheads on Ukrainian bases.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/43rd_Rocket_Army

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12. s1artibartfast ◴[] No.42178209{6}[source]
Not posting this as a definitive gotcha, but this article includes some detail on how the situation was "complex" at best

> In early 1994, after the Trilateral Agreement, "General Vitaly Radetskyi, Ukraine’s new Minister of Defence, summoned Mikhtyuk and two of his senior generals to Kyiv.[10] Without warning, General Radetskyi told them they had 15 minutes to decide whether to take Ukraine’s oath of allegiance. General Mikhtyuk and one general took the oath, while the other refused. Then, the minister ordered [Mikhtyuk] to return to his headquarters in Vinnytsia immediately, and convene all of his subordinate commanders. ..He did so explaining his personal decision to remain in Ukraine, and asking each officer to take or reject the oath. “All of my deputies,” Mikhtyuk recalled, “except one, said they would not take the oath and asked me to transfer them to the Russian Federation."

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13. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.42178278{7}[source]
Of course it was complex. The point is if Kyiv refused to co-operate it would take Russian military strength it didn’t have at the time to seize them. That isn’t analogous to American nukes on overseas bases.
14. Hizonner ◴[] No.42179483{4}[source]
> and call for nuking west

The number one most noticeable English mistake Russians tend to make is dropping articles all the time...

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15. hem777 ◴[] No.42180561{5}[source]
Number two is calling for nukes, anywhere by anybody. Nobody else brings that to the conversation.