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The man who killed Google Search?

(www.wheresyoured.at)
1884 points elorant | 9 comments | | HN request time: 0.037s | source | bottom
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gregw134 ◴[] No.40136741[source]
Ex-Google search engineer here (2019-2023). I know a lot of the veteran engineers were upset when Ben Gomes got shunted off. Probably the bigger change, from what I've heard, was losing Amit Singhal who led Search until 2016. Amit fought against creeping complexity. There is a semi-famous internal document he wrote where he argued against the other search leads that Google should use less machine-learning, or at least contain it as much as possible, so that ranking stays debuggable and understandable by human search engineers. My impression is that since he left complexity exploded, with every team launching as many deep learning projects as they can (just like every other large tech company has).

The problem though, is the older systems had obvious problems, while the newer systems have hidden bugs and conceptual issues which often don't show up in the metrics, and which compound over time as more complexity is layered on. For example: I found an off by 1 error deep in a formula from an old launch that has been reordering top results for 15% of queries since 2015. I handed it off when I left but have no idea whether anyone actually fixed it or not.

I wrote up all of the search bugs I was aware of in an internal document called "second page navboost", so if anyone working on search at Google reads this and needs a launch go check it out.

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banish-m4 ◴[] No.40137898[source]
Thanks for writing this insightful piece.

The pathologies of big companies that fail to break themselves up into smaller non-siloed entities like Virgin Group does. Maintaining the successful growing startup ways and fighting against politics, bureaucracy, fiefdoms, and burgeoning codebases is difficult but is a better way than chasing short-term profits, massive codebases, institutional inertia, dealing with corporate bullshit that gets in the way of the customer experience and pushes out solid technical ICs and leaders.

I'm surprised there aren't more people on here who decide "F-it, MAANG megacorps are too risky and backwards not representative of their roots" and form worker-owned co-ops to do what MAANGs are doing, only better, and with long-term business sustainability, long tenure, employee perks like the startup days, and positive civil culture as their central mission.

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1. barfbagginus ◴[] No.40138159[source]
I formed a worker co-op - but it's just me! And I do CAD reverse engineering, nothing really life-giving.

I would love to join a co-op producing real human survival values in an open source way. Where would you suggest that I look for leads on that kind of organization?

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2. hsbauauvhabzb ◴[] No.40138739[source]
I would imagine GitHub and technology social media
3. atif089 ◴[] No.40138977[source]
Let's start with replacing Google. Count me in.

While DDG, Brave, Kagi etc are working generously to replace Google search. The other areas that I think get less attention and needs to be targeted to successfully dismantle them and their predatory practices are Google maps and Google docs.

Maps are hard because it requires a lot of resources and money and whatever but replacing docs should be relatively easier.

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4. disqard ◴[] No.40139109[source]
(paid user of Kagi here)

FWIW, Kagi is built on top of Google search, so yes it's "replacing" (for you and me) a dependence on Google search, but it is categorically not a from-the-ground-up replacement for Google search.

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5. ninjaa ◴[] No.40140077{3}[source]
Oh that's pretty smart
6. jaynate ◴[] No.40140291[source]
Using OSS to commoditize complements plays a big role in breaking up big advantages.

There is big tech open source consortium working on maps now to commoditize it: https://siliconangle.com/2022/12/15/aws-microsoft-meta-tomto...

Not sure it'll work. I think half the advantage comes from the integration across all these tools (maps, search, etc). Have you ever tried to use duckduckgo? It surprised me what I take for granted in Google's user experience.

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7. verzali ◴[] No.40148691[source]
OpenStreetMaps is pretty decent, and I find it better than Google Maps in most cases.
8. atif089 ◴[] No.40160923{3}[source]
I wholeheatedly agree with you. The GMaps experience is vastly superior. Additionally, when I'm referring to Gmaps, I think one of the critical features that I would love to replace with Open Source is Places. With due respect, I find both Google and Yelp a*holes in this area. While OpenStreetMap is really good for mapping, I'm still looking to find(or create) somethign that can supplement OSM with Places/Business data.
9. barfbagginus ◴[] No.40162092[source]
What does a zero cost / zero IP / cooperative model of a Google killer look like?

It can't have ads, and it can't hide any knowledge that exists which could help the user.. even if the knowledge is proprietary.

It must repeal copyright laws by force. It must drain all silos and know all things. And it must utilize the entirety of the library Genesis.