Most active commenters
  • notch656a(4)
  • catapart(4)

←back to thread

1624 points yaythefuture | 16 comments | | HN request time: 1.894s | source | bottom

Saw https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32261868 from a couple weeks ago and figured I'd share my own story.

3 weeks ago, I woke up to a pissed off customer telling me her payments were broken. My startup uses Stripe Connect to accept payments on behalf of our clients, and when I looked into it, I found that Stripe had decided to deactivate her account. Reason listed: 'Other'.

Great.

I contact Stripe via chat, and I learn nothing. Frontline support says "we'll look into it." Days go by, still nothing. Meanwhile, this customer is losing a massive amount of business and suffering.

After a few days, my team and I go at them from as many angles as possible. We're on the phone, we're on Twitter, we're reaching out to connections who work there / used to work there, and of course, we reach out to patio11. All of these support channels give us nothing except "we've got a team looking into it". But Stripe's frontline seems to be prohibited from offering any other info, I assume for liability reasons. "We wouldn't want to accidentally tell you the reason this happened, and have it be a bad one."

We ask: 1. Why was this account flagged? "I don't have that information" 2. What can we do to get this fixed? "I don't have access to that information. 3. Who does? "I don't have access to that information" 4. What can you do about this? "I've escalated your case. It's being reviewed."

I should mention at this point that I've been running this business since 2016, my customers have been more or less the same since then, and I've had (back when it was apparently possible) several phone conversations with Stripe staff about my business model. They know exactly who our customers are and what services we offer, and have approved it as such.

After a week of templated email responses and endless anxiety, we finally got an email from Stripe letting us know that they had reviewed the account and reactivated it. We never got a reason for why any of this had happened, despite asking for one multiple times. Oh well, still good news right? Except nope, this was only the beginning.

This morning I woke up to an email that about 35% of my client accounts had been deactivated and were "Under review", the kicker here being that one of those accounts is the same one they already reviewed last week! This is either the work of incompetent staff or (more likely) a bad algorithm. No reasonable human could make this mistake after last week's drama.

So currently, my product doesn't work for 35% of my customers. Cue torrent of pissed off customer emails.

And the best part is, this time I have an email from Stripe this time: Apparently these accounts are being flagged, despite the notes on our file, and despite the review completed literally last week, as not in compliance with Stripe's ToS. They suggest that if I believe this was done in error, I should reach out to customer support. Oh, you mean the same customer support that can't give me literally any information at all other than "We have a team looking into it"? The same customer support that won't give me any estimates as to how long it's going to take to put this fire out? The same customer support that literally looked into this a week ago and found no issues!?

I feel like I'm going crazy over here. These accounts have hundreds of thousands of dollars in them being held hostage by an utterly incompetent team / algorithm that seems to lack any and all empathy for the havoc they wreak on businesses when they pull the rug out from under them with no warning, nor for the impact they have on customers when they all of a sudden lose all ability to make money. And all that for an account that has been using Stripe for nearly 7 years without issue!

This goes so far beyond "customer support declining at scale." If lack of customer support means that critical integrations start to fail, that's not a customer support failure, that's a fundamental business failure.

1. froggertoaster ◴[] No.32854794[source]
An incredibly unhelpful comment.
replies(1): >>32854842 #
2. pmx ◴[] No.32854796[source]
This victim blaming has to stop. These companies shouldn't be able to just shut down an account like this, especially for something so critical and core to a business survival. We shouldn't have to live in a world where you need multiple backups for every service you use in case one decides to fuck you over for no good reason!
replies(3): >>32854853 #>>32854873 #>>32855054 #
3. notch656a ◴[] No.32854842[source]
If I were helpful, I'd probably drop a comment on HN for the first time in a week to shit on someone's advice for moving forward with no advice of my own and nothing else to say.

Talk about the ultimate hypocrite.

replies(2): >>32855109 #>>32855271 #
4. incone123 ◴[] No.32854873[source]
Not to agree with the grandparent comment, but we do live in exactly that world. Even as a private citizen I deliberately carry more than one kind of payment card.
replies(1): >>32856245 #
5. catapart ◴[] No.32854886[source]
No - this would be an example of GETTING fucked by a company, BECAUSE you trusted them. Which is exactly the kind of thing we write laws about; you shouldn't be able to get fucked because you believed what a company told you. You should only be able to get fucked by a company because you agreed to the penalties of how they intended to fuck you, should you break that agreement, and proceeded to intentionally and/or maliciously break that agreement.

Consumer protection is "good, actually", and while a financially robust entity is always better served by having options and backups, it's reasonable to assume that those luxuries are not available to everyone and should thus not be the expected modus operandi of a standard enterprise.

Charitably, I'll assume you meant "you should have other methods, as backup", which is decent advice. It's just really shitty when you frame it as a default expectation that was "fucked up".

replies(1): >>32857329 #
6. tyingq ◴[] No.32854930[source]
Worth noting that he's using Stripe Connect, which is more complicated than just a regular "payment pathway". Having a second provider for that is decent advice, but it's not as simple as your pretty flippant comment would suggest.
7. devman0 ◴[] No.32855054[source]
I guess the response to this is, "it depends." Like I agree with you on an some level, but really it depends on what kind of SLA you have with the vendor. If you are not paying for one, you really are not owed an explanation, and you should be multi vendored on that function to prevent outages.
8. dang ◴[] No.32855271{3}[source]
Would you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? We've already had to ask you this multiple times:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30363800 (Feb 2022)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30106006 (Jan 2022)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30105990 (Jan 2022)

If you keep doing it, we're going to have to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

9. ◴[] No.32855281{4}[source]
10. polski-g ◴[] No.32856245{3}[source]
You have a large selection to pick from! You can use Visa or you can use Mastercard.
11. notch656a ◴[] No.32857329[source]
Sometimes when fucking happens, both parties did the fucking.

Betting the farm on Stripe should never be the modus operando of a 'standard enterprise' and thank god I have never worked with anyone in any position of power over money that shared your beliefs. That is just insanity.

replies(1): >>32857973 #
12. catapart ◴[] No.32857973{3}[source]
Running a successful business that is intrinsically tied to a well-known or well-trusted institution is not only common, it's the case for the majority of businesses. Which is WHY we have consumer protection (it's not to protect your typical "consumer", it's to protect the money interests of business people). How many businesses do you think could survive a disruption to their banking access? Or maybe their internet access? Electricity access? These things get laws to guarantee their functionality, even though they're private industry, because keeping businesses running is pretty important.

So no, in no universe is it rational to believe that trusting a resource to deliver on their promises is, in any way, "fucking yourself". You're just projecting your paranoia onto others as a mechanism for rationalization. You have the privilege of living with backups, and pretend that it makes you more reasonable than others, because it boosts your ego while simultaneously satiating your paranoia. It's fine - I always carry a full sized spare tire in my compact car. Inconvenient and hardly used, sure. But it stifles my paranoia about the many times I've needed to ad-hoc replace a tire. And has saved me more trouble than I can quantify. That doesn't mean people who can't afford a full-sized spare are 'fucking themselves' by not prioritizing it over, say, other or less-costly needs. It just means that I have privileges they don't.

replies(1): >>32859482 #
13. notch656a ◴[] No.32859482{4}[source]
Yes, I'm paranoid and privileged, that's why a single point of failure doesn't result in me going bankrupt. Can I cry into some $100 bills? You can dish out the hate and I can keep on keepin on enjoying my lavish privilege of having backup plans. The only thing better than boosting my ego is boosting my bank account as I draw pictures of Scrooge McDuck while my soul nourishes on the insults of HN'ers (hopefully I incorporated them all here, I lost count).
replies(1): >>32865973 #
14. catapart ◴[] No.32865973{5}[source]
No hate here, brother. Only love. And perception. Your sarcasm is a fine enough shield, and you hold it well! I hope that it protects you until you can be honest with yourself. In the mean time, I'm happy to take your admission as a win, even if you'd like it to be insincere. Thanks for admitting your a privileged paranoid; that's the first step!

I'm sorry you felt insulted by my assumptions about you. I honestly assumed that a sober recitation of the obvious flaws in your framing would be enough to deflect what was a small amount of candid anger that you decided to parlay into self-aggrandizing "advice". Instead, I can see that I touched a nerve and only invoked more hatred from you. For that, I am truly sorry! I hope you get less hateful in the future as I will try to be more cautious of similar types of lashing out.

replies(1): >>32867753 #
15. notch656a ◴[] No.32867753{6}[source]
I apologize, you see I am a simple hillbilly from backwater America. I would speak this same way to my best friends, and I'm not joking. Making everything delicate like I'm speaking to an 8 year old child is not really my thing, if I think someone dun fucked up I'm going to say so. Perhaps certain more refined segments of America conider this anger, and you can self console yourself of your moral superiority.
replies(1): >>32870641 #
16. catapart ◴[] No.32870641{7}[source]
Your apology is accepted. Thank you! I hope you feel better soon!