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1061 points danso | 25 comments | | HN request time: 2.557s | source | bottom
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ikeyany ◴[] No.23349451[source]
People are wondering "How far does this go? How can Twitter say this is not cool, but allow something like violent movies or games? Where's the line?"

The leader of the United States encouraging law enforcement and the military to shoot American citizens for looting, that's the line.

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1. umvi ◴[] No.23349574[source]
> The leader of the United States encouraging law enforcement and the military to shoot American citizens for looting

That's an extremely literal interpretation of his words. Most people would interpret that phrase to mean "you better think twice before looting because I'm not going to sit idly by and let you do it" but in the form of a vaguely threatening, yet catchy rhyme.

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2. ◴[] No.23349693[source]
3. chooseaname ◴[] No.23349765[source]
> The phrase was used by Miami's police chief, Walter Headley, in 1967, when he addressed his department's "crackdown on ... slum hoodlums," according to a United Press International article from the time.

> Headley, who was chief of police in Miami for 20 years, said that law enforcement was going after “young hoodlums, from 15 to 21, who have taken advantage of the civil rights campaign. ... We don't mind being accused of police brutality."

This is where the quote comes from.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/where-does-phrase-...

Edit:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-quotes-cop-sparked-rac...

> The National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence found that Headley's remarks and policing policies had been a significant factor in sparking the riots.

> Headley died four months after the riots. The Times in its obituary noted his policies had caused "growing resentment" among black Miami residents.

Our President fully understands the gravity of those words. This is what he wanted to say. This is what he meant. This is what he believes. This is WHO HE IS.

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4. dragonwriter ◴[] No.23350094[source]
> That's an extremely literal interpretation of his words

Yes, which is better than a reasonable interpretation of his words would show them to be, because going beyond a mere literal reading to consider the deliberate historical reference and the implicit subtext makes the statement worse, not better.

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5. philwelch ◴[] No.23353982[source]
There are many ways I would describe Donald Trump, but “deeply knowledgeable about American civil rights history” is not one of them. I can almost certainly guarantee you that Trump’s statement was not intended as an homage or reference to a Miami police chief from the 1960’s.
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6. anigbrowl ◴[] No.23354093[source]
What's vague about 'When the looting starts, the shooting starts'? It seems extremely specific to me.
7. tunesmith ◴[] No.23354104[source]
The President keeps surprising me. Like, I keep thinking I have an accurate mental model of him being generally hateful and clueless and instinctive, but then things like this happen and underscore to me that he is deeply knowledgeable and sophisticated with these kinds of historical cultural references. So, still hateful, but not a dummy. That phrase was not an accident.
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8. davidw ◴[] No.23354325[source]
He's fairly good at riding that line of plausible deniability.

Just yesterday, he retweeted a guy calling for Democrats to die. "Well, not literally of course"... wink wink.

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9. beart ◴[] No.23354607[source]
> Most people would interpret that phrase to mean "you better think twice before looting because I'm not going to sit idly by and let you do it"

What do you base the knowledge of how most people will have interpreted this statement on?

The historical experiences of different classes of people can have a profound impact on the perspectives they have in relation to the government. An 80 year old black man might have a very different relationship with governmental authorities than a 30 year old Latino, or a 40 year old Caucasian.

10. ilikehurdles ◴[] No.23354706[source]
> Most people would interpret that phrase..

Even if you're right, which you're not, what is "Most" here? 51%? 63%? 90%?

Are you saying that it's bad if the majority of people are riled up to engage in violence following his tweet, but OK if 40% do? 10%? 1%?

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11. ilikehurdles ◴[] No.23354731{3}[source]
Agreed, it was not an accident. He hired Miller and Gorka. Also not by accident. Gorka left after Bannon, but Stephen Miller is pretty knowledgable as well as open about his views on race and fascism, and often seems involved in messaging strategy.
12. pcbro141 ◴[] No.23354748{3}[source]
People are choosing to give him plausible deniability because he's white. If Obama sent a tweet calling for Republicans to die, all politicians whether Democrat or Republican would forcefully condemn him.

He's really not a mastermind genius playing 4-D Chess. He is openly calling for violence, and has already inspired terrorists to mail bombs to prominent politicians, and people are choosing to play dumb about how evil he is.

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13. diffrinse ◴[] No.23354813{3}[source]
Two paths here: - Trump is old enough to conceivably remember such quotes, he doesn't have to have a deep knowledge of American Civil Rights history, just a few memories of catchy rhymes - If Trump is not penning his tweets, then the choice of quotation is even more likely to be intended
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14. kyrra ◴[] No.23354851[source]
Probably depends on what you think of the intentions of the person. Some people think Trump is the devil and assume he means the worst-case thing when he says something, others look at it in other lights.

Previous US presidents were careful with their words, as they know people will interpret them in different ways if they aren't crystal clear. Trump just does stream-of-through -> keyboard -> twitter, and we get to see the results. Which tends to leave lots of what he says open to interpretation based on the perspective of the reader.

15. philwelch ◴[] No.23355076{4}[source]
I think it’s entirely possible that he remembered a catchy rhyme. I don’t think that supports the theory that he is deliberately referencing Walter Headley. Lots of people repeat catchy sayings without even knowing and endorsing who originally said them or even what those sayings originally meant.
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16. dragonwriter ◴[] No.23355077{4}[source]
> People are choosing to give him plausible deniability because he's white.

People are choosing to grant him deniability even when it is rather implausible because (insofar as race is relevant, there's other things that work similar for some that aren't race-related) they are white racists and his deniability on that point is also their deniability when he is speaking to their interests.

17. abraae ◴[] No.23355124{3}[source]
Could be it was just a catchy rhyme that stuck in his head and bubbled out, rather than a deep and sophisticated understanding of history.
18. chooseaname ◴[] No.23355146{5}[source]
The White House retweeted it. Trump has many advisors. There is NO way this got past all of them without someone knowing what it meant.

No, Trump did this on purpose. The simplest explanation is the most likely.

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19. ◴[] No.23355195[source]
20. diffrinse ◴[] No.23355852{5}[source]
>Lots of people repeat catchy sayings without even knowing and endorsing who originally said them or even what those sayings originally meant.

This I disagree with, particularly since he doesn't have to consciously "know" or acknowledge anything explicitly for him not to understand the basic import of the statement.

I don't think anyone's saying he's capable of giving a brief one paragraph statement for an SAT question concerning Civil Rights activism in mid-20th century Florida, cause biases and prejudices don't need that much formal verification to commerce

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21. philwelch ◴[] No.23356219{6}[source]
So by that logic, would you agree that anyone who cites “shouting fire in a crowded theater” in discussions about free speech is in favor of imprisoning pacifists for distributing pamphlets?
22. chooseaname ◴[] No.23357825{5}[source]
Its not catchy. Say the words out loud. Everything about those words are ominous.

He knew what he was saying. But, coward that he is, he’s claiming to not know where the words came from now that a reporter asked him.

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23. umvi ◴[] No.23358180{6}[source]
Being catchy and being ominous are not mutually exclusive.
24. philwelch ◴[] No.23359597{6}[source]
So you might remember about a year back, a doctor got rather violently removed from a United Airlines flight after boarding because they overbooked the flight. There was a joke about it afterwards, some gallows humor: “Not enough seating? Prepare for a beating.”

I remembered that admittedly tasteless joke because (a) it rhymes and (b) it’s pretty violent and offensive, which makes it somewhat vivid. And honestly, “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” hits the same notes.

25. philwelch ◴[] No.23359621{6}[source]
You’re implying the existence of a filter on Trump’s public comments that, by all evidence, does not seem to exist.